Off Season Thread

[mouse]

Here's an interesting article on the trades made by the contending teams, ranked 35 to 1. For the Rays, the Chris Archer trade ranked . . .



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/301 ... ers-braves

[GreenWeenie]

Trades? Is that something that GMs do to improve their clubs?

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

48535E5F565A553B0 wrote: [highlight]I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.[/highlight]  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


BC did sign one player who helped the 2020 team:  Phil Evans.  He was an improvement defensively at 3B over Moran and he led the team in hitting before getting hurt. Cherington met your low standards. I'm not sure why you're complaining.

[Bobster21]

356375616E74646F627547606A666E6B2964070 wrote: [highlight]I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.[/highlight]  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


BC did sign one player who helped the 2020 team:  Phil Evans.  He was an improvement defensively at 3B over Moran and he led the team in hitting before getting hurt.  Cherington met your low standards.  I'm not sure why you're complaining.
Alford and Howard were good pick ups. Too bad Alford and Evans got hurt.



I understand Shedman's frustration. The future never arrives. But if I have to hope for something, it will be that BC succeeds where NH failed and actually does build a strong organization rather than hoping he adds 1 or 2 players who make an immediate impact so that a terrible team becomes slightly less terrible but never gets better than that.



So whether we look for immediate improvement or building for a competitive future, the track record is bad. Very bad. I can't say I have faith that BC will succeed. But I won't be satisfied with slightly less terrible teams anyway so I might as well go for broke and hope the future someday arrives.

[GreenWeenie]

No one has written that, either.



You begin by improving at at least one position. Then, keep doing at least that much.



You don't stop. We stopped. Worse, we went in reverse by lessening CF; an "up-the-middle" position.



It can be done more than one way. But, it's not good to just stop and pray.

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

426F62737465723231000 wrote: [highlight]I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.[/highlight]  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


BC did sign one player who helped the 2020 team:  Phil Evans.  He was an improvement defensively at 3B over Moran and he led the team in hitting before getting hurt.  Cherington met your low standards.  I'm not sure why you're complaining.
Alford and Howard were good pick ups. Too bad Alford and Evans got hurt.



I understand Shedman's frustration. The future never arrives. But if I have to hope for something, it will be that BC succeeds where NH failed and actually does build a strong organization rather than hoping he adds 1 or 2 players who make an immediate impact so that a terrible team becomes slightly less terrible but never gets better than that.



So whether we look for immediate improvement or building for a competitive future, the track record is bad. Very bad. I can't say I have faith that BC will succeed. But I won't be satisfied with slightly less terrible teams anyway so I might as well go for broke and hope the future someday arrives.   




We're all frustrated.  We all want the Pirates to be competitive today.  But the reality is that, with BC being new to the job, he's going to build his own organization and major league team his way, and he isn't going to it with Huntington's staff and players because they've largely proved incapable.



We also know BC wasn't suddenly going to have way more payroll money to work with back in November, either, so quick fixes with free agents weren't going to happen.  People asking for, or expecting, that weren't being realistic.



We all know how he's going to build the organization. First with draft picks and international signings.  Then dealing away veterans (if any of them snap out of it and play up to their talent) for younger guys who are major league ready.  Then, when the team is ready to compete for a title, he'll look for free agent(s) who can put the team over the top.  But that's assuming Nutting will act like a real owner and give him the money.



And anyone who dismisses the issues confronting BC due to the pandemic is being naive.  BC came into a new job with an organization that was a mess.  Few, if any, other franchises, with GMs already in place, were in such a miserable condition.



I don't like the situation any more than anyone else, but I'm not going to complain about something I can't change.  Like you, I can only hope that BC is better than Huntington at his job.  He can't be worse, and that's what gives me that hope.  I think he deserves more than 11 months, five of which were in shutdown, to prove his worth.

[Ecbucs]

3B6D7B6F607A6A616C7B496E64686065276A090 wrote: [highlight]I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.[/highlight]  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


BC did sign one player who helped the 2020 team:  Phil Evans.  He was an improvement defensively at 3B over Moran and he led the team in hitting before getting hurt.  Cherington met your low standards.  I'm not sure why you're complaining.
Alford and Howard were good pick ups. Too bad Alford and Evans got hurt.



I understand Shedman's frustration. The future never arrives. But if I have to hope for something, it will be that BC succeeds where NH failed and actually does build a strong organization rather than hoping he adds 1 or 2 players who make an immediate impact so that a terrible team becomes slightly less terrible but never gets better than that.



So whether we look for immediate improvement or building for a competitive future, the track record is bad. Very bad. I can't say I have faith that BC will succeed. But I won't be satisfied with slightly less terrible teams anyway so I might as well go for broke and hope the future someday arrives.   




We're all frustrated.  We all want the Pirates to be competitive today.  But the reality is that, with BC being new to the job, he's going to build his own organization and major league team his way, and he isn't going to it with Huntington's staff and players because they've largely proved incapable.



We also know BC wasn't suddenly going to have way more payroll money to work with back in November, either, so quick fixes with free agents weren't going to happen.  People asking for, or expecting, that weren't being realistic.



We all know how he's going to build the organization.  First with draft picks and international signings.  Then dealing away veterans (if any of them snap out of it and play up to their talent) for younger guys who are major league ready.  Then, when the team is ready to compete for a title, he'll look for free agent(s) who can put the team over the top.  But that's assuming Nutting will act like a real owner and give him the money.



And anyone who dismisses the issues confronting BC due to the pandemic is being naive.  BC came into a new job with an organization that was a mess.  Few, if any, other franchises, with GMs already in place, were in such a miserable condition.



I don't like the situation any more than anyone else, but I'm not going to complain about something I can't change.  Like you, I can only hope that BC is better than Huntington at his job.  He can't be worse, and that's what gives me that hope.  I think he deserves more than 11 months, five of which were in shutdown, to prove his worth.




I am fine with giving BC more time, but have my fingers crossed that next collective bargaining agreement doesn't reduce free agency to five years of service. Losing a year of control would pretty much eliminate the Bucs ever having a chance of having a group of players that have experience and talent.

[fjk090852-7]

3E687E6A657F6F64697E4C6B616D6560226F0C0 wrote: [highlight]I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.[/highlight]  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


BC did sign one player who helped the 2020 team:  Phil Evans.  He was an improvement defensively at 3B over Moran and he led the team in hitting before getting hurt.  Cherington met your low standards.  I'm not sure why you're complaining.
Alford and Howard were good pick ups. Too bad Alford and Evans got hurt.



I understand Shedman's frustration. The future never arrives. But if I have to hope for something, it will be that BC succeeds where NH failed and actually does build a strong organization rather than hoping he adds 1 or 2 players who make an immediate impact so that a terrible team becomes slightly less terrible but never gets better than that.



So whether we look for immediate improvement or building for a competitive future, the track record is bad. Very bad. I can't say I have faith that BC will succeed. But I won't be satisfied with slightly less terrible teams anyway so I might as well go for broke and hope the future someday arrives.   




We're all frustrated.  We all want the Pirates to be competitive today.  But the reality is that, with BC being new to the job, he's going to build his own organization and major league team his way, and he isn't going to it with Huntington's staff and players because they've largely proved incapable.



We also know BC wasn't suddenly going to have way more payroll money to work with back in November, either, so quick fixes with free agents weren't going to happen.  People asking for, or expecting, that weren't being realistic.



We all know how he's going to build the organization.  First with draft picks and international signings.  Then dealing away veterans (if any of them snap out of it and play up to their talent) for younger guys who are major league ready.  Then, when the team is ready to compete for a title, he'll look for free agent(s) who can put the team over the top.  But that's assuming Nutting will act like a real owner and give him the money.



And anyone who dismisses the issues confronting BC due to the pandemic is being naive.  BC came into a new job with an organization that was a mess.  Few, if any, other franchises, with GMs already in place, were in such a miserable condition.



I don't like the situation any more than anyone else, but I'm not going to complain about something I can't change.  Like you, I can only hope that BC is better than Huntington at his job.  He can't be worse, and that's what gives me that hope.  I think he deserves more than 11 months, five of which were in shutdown, to prove his worth.


Doc and Bobster said it all. This season was very unordinary due to the pandemic. I am giving Ben Cherington time to evaluate what he has in this organization. I like Bobster,like the signings of Evans and Alford. I would have liked to see what they could have done if not injured. They are both interesting players in my opinion. BC in his first draft with Pittsburgh did not skip over Gonzales when he fell to them in the first round. He has signed some interesting International Free Agents since he came on board. You cannot wave a magic wand and all of a sudden the team is a pennant contender. I feel too there are certain players on the current roster who will be a part of the team when they win again. I have been a Pirate fan for many years, my favorite player originally was Dick Groat, so I am no bandwagon jumper. I remember when Chuck Tanner was our manager he said one thing you need is patience, and I have hope and patience that BC and his staff will return winning baseball to Pittsburgh.

[shedman]

With all of the can kicking going on in this thread, I feel it is necessary to expand the excuses and alibis to 11 instead of 10 as follows:



Here are the top 10 excuses and alibis for not acquiring a player.



1. He is an aging veteran on the decline.

2. He is too injury prone.

3. Acquiring him would bring us no closer to a championship.

4. He would never sign to play in Pittsburgh.

5. He would be a clubhouse cancer.

6. Acquiring him would upset the team chemistry.

7. Signing him would lose financial flexibility for a 1 year player.

8.We already have players just as good as him.

9. We are not the Red Sox or Yankees and they would outbid us.

10.He would block this LMG or that LMG from development.

11. BC can't improve the team because of Covid-19.



Unfortunately, we find ourselves in a position that there is no way BC can improve the worst team in all of baseball.

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

4A6C6D7A6C7C0F0 wrote: [highlight]I would much rather BC had acquired 1 player to help the 2020 team then playing for a undefined future that NEVER arrives in Pittsburgh.[/highlight]  That is nothing more than kicking the can down the road and apologizing for a GM who has done nothing.  Now my only concern is what BC will do to improve the 2021 team.  This playing for the future is a movie I have seen more times than I have watched the movie Titanic.  Relying on the draft is a hopeless strategy in Pittsburgh.  Those drafted players will reach FA and be dashed off long before their prime years.  I will measure BC solely on how well he does to improve the team right now.


BC did sign one player who helped the 2020 team:  Phil Evans.  He was an improvement defensively at 3B over Moran and he led the team in hitting before getting hurt.  Cherington met your low standards.  I'm not sure why you're complaining.
Alford and Howard were good pick ups. Too bad Alford and Evans got hurt.



I understand Shedman's frustration. The future never arrives. But if I have to hope for something, it will be that BC succeeds where NH failed and actually does build a strong organization rather than hoping he adds 1 or 2 players who make an immediate impact so that a terrible team becomes slightly less terrible but never gets better than that.



So whether we look for immediate improvement or building for a competitive future, the track record is bad. Very bad. I can't say I have faith that BC will succeed. But I won't be satisfied with slightly less terrible teams anyway so I might as well go for broke and hope the future someday arrives.   




We're all frustrated.  We all want the Pirates to be competitive today.  But the reality is that, with BC being new to the job, he's going to build his own organization and major league team his way, and he isn't going to it with Huntington's staff and players because they've largely proved incapable.



We also know BC wasn't suddenly going to have way more payroll money to work with back in November, either, so quick fixes with free agents weren't going to happen.  People asking for, or expecting, that weren't being realistic.



We all know how he's going to build the organization.  First with draft picks and international signings.  Then dealing away veterans (if any of them snap out of it and play up to their talent) for younger guys who are major league ready.  Then, when the team is ready to compete for a title, he'll look for free agent(s) who can put the team over the top.  But that's assuming Nutting will act like a real owner and give him the money.



And anyone who dismisses the issues confronting BC due to the pandemic is being naive.  BC came into a new job with an organization that was a mess.  Few, if any, other franchises, with GMs already in place, were in such a miserable condition.



I don't like the situation any more than anyone else, but I'm not going to complain about something I can't change.  Like you, I can only hope that BC is better than Huntington at his job.  He can't be worse, and that's what gives me that hope.  I think he deserves more than 11 months, five of which were in shutdown, to prove his worth.




I am fine with giving BC more time, but have my fingers crossed that next collective bargaining agreement doesn't reduce free agency to five years of service.  Losing a year of control would pretty much eliminate the Bucs ever having a chance of having a group of players that have experience and talent.


I agree with you but we shouldn't hold our breath. The owners seem to make decisions that tend to constrain or hurt the small market clubs.