Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds

[GreenWeenie]

A larger number of #1s don't make the majors for one reason or another than some people realize.



Of those who do.....let's start with- most don't even join the club right away, so there's no immediate help.



And, when they do....the level of their contribution varies, of course.



The bottom line is- if this is what people are counting on, then they haven't learned enough from history.



But...."this will be different."



BOB doesn't NEED to improve the club. He has people believing in this stuff.

[JollyRoger]

I kind of see this 2020 version of the Pirates as completely devoid of talent minus a very few exceptions. I think they resemble the Washington Nationals of a decade ago. The Nationals drafted Strausburg #1 in 2009. (Kumer Rocker has been compared to Strausburg for the 2021 draft). In 2010 the Nationals again had the #1 pick and chose Bryce Harper as a no brainer. 2011 the Pirates chose Cole with the #1 while the National chose Rendon with the #4. In 3 years the Nats through the draft alone had a strong core. They then spent on International talent like Soto.



I think Nick Gonzales is going to be a Star. Hopefully Rocker (if the Bucs get him) will live up to the hype. The Bucs will need to spend up to their limit and hit on some International signings.

In addition, players like Priester, Hayes, Cruz will need to be impact players. That’s when we can realistically expect to contend



Let’s face it. There will not be any significant payroll infusion from Scrooge Nutting and we won’t have Mark Cuban riding in on a white horse to save the organization because Scrooge won’t sell.

[Ecbucs]

487D6A6A61586A6A61666A0F0 wrote: A larger number of #1s don't make the majors for one reason or another than some people realize.



Of those who do.....let's start with- most don't even join the club right away, so there's no immediate help.



And, when they do....the level of their contribution varies, of course.



The bottom line is- if this is what people are counting on, then they haven't learned enough from history.



But...."this will be different."



BOB doesn't NEED to improve the club.  He has people believing in this stuff.


Here are Stephen Strasburg stats: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... st01.shtml



He made 10.4 million in 2016.  Prior to 2016 he had won 54 games including 1 15 win season and 1 14 win season. He made 30 starts once and 34 in another season.





in 2017 and 2018 he made over 18 million a season.



then 38 million in 2019 and became a free agent where he is now earning 35 million a year for 7 years. 







Anthony Rendon earned 12 million and then 18 million his last two years before free agency, then signed a six year $210 million contract.



There is no way the Bucs will pay anyone similar amounts.



Other than having a lucky year, I don't see how the Pirates will ever be willing to pay for starting pitching (or anywhere else for that matter).



Unless the Pirates change the way they operate if they sign a great player they will only be able to pay him for 4 or 5 seasons.  Hard to build a core that way.

[JollyRoger]

755352455343300 wrote: A larger number of #1s don't make the majors for one reason or another than some people realize.



Of those who do.....let's start with- most don't even join the club right away, so there's no immediate help.



And, when they do....the level of their contribution varies, of course.



The bottom line is- if this is what people are counting on, then they haven't learned enough from history.



But...."this will be different."



BOB doesn't NEED to improve the club.  He has people believing in this stuff.


Here are Stephen Strasburg stats: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... st01.shtml



He made 10.4 million in 2016.  Prior to 2016 he had won 54 games including 1 15 win season and 1 14 win season. He made 30 starts once and 34 in another season.





in 2017 and 2018 he made over 18 million a season.



then 38 million in 2019 and became a free agent where he is now earning 35 million a year for 7 years. 







Anthony Rendon earned 12 million and then 18 million his last two years before free agency, then signed a six year $210 million contract.



There is no way the Bucs will pay anyone similar amounts.



Other than having a lucky year, I don't see how the Pirates will ever be willing to pay for starting pitching (or anywhere else for that matter).



Unless the Pirates change the way they operate if they sign a great player they will only be able to pay him for 4 or 5 seasons.  Hard to build a core that way.




Agreed that current ownership will not pay to keep any stars that the Pirates develop. That is why the only chance is to draft players who become impact players along with impact International signings. We could then have a window of contention, That window could be extended by traded of our stars for young comparable talent. That however requires a smart and competent scouting and player development department which has been a weak point

[GreenWeenie]

062021362030430 wrote: A larger number of #1s don't make the majors for one reason or another than some people realize.



Of those who do.....let's start with- most don't even join the club right away, so there's no immediate help.



And, when they do....the level of their contribution varies, of course.



The bottom line is- if this is what people are counting on, then they haven't learned enough from history.



But...."this will be different."



BOB doesn't NEED to improve the club.  He has people believing in this stuff.


Here are Stephen Strasburg stats: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... st01.shtml



He made 10.4 million in 2016.  Prior to 2016 he had won 54 games including 1 15 win season and 1 14 win season. He made 30 starts once and 34 in another season.





in 2017 and 2018 he made over 18 million a season.



then 38 million in 2019 and became a free agent where he is now earning 35 million a year for 7 years. 







Anthony Rendon earned 12 million and then 18 million his last two years before free agency, then signed a six year $210 million contract.



There is no way the Bucs will pay anyone similar amounts.



Other than having a lucky year, I don't see how the Pirates will ever be willing to pay for starting pitching (or anywhere else for that matter).



Unless the Pirates change the way they operate if they sign a great player they will only be able to pay him for 4 or 5 seasons.  Hard to build a core that way.






I certainly agree. I dnk how much this helps, but I believe that this hockey guy's job is to increase revenue from non-gate sources....or, even the gate, too, because of corporate season ticket pages. Will it make enough of a difference? Can't say.



BOB has the money. Maybe not enough to pay for 35 stars, but he has the money. Anytime you think he doesn't have the money, he has the money. Maybe not Yankees or Dodgers money, but he has the money. He just doesn't want to pay it.

[SammyKhalifa]

Polanco i just such an easy guy to root for (like several of our other struggling players like Bell and [Archer]).



“I didn’t know that he mentioned that,” Polanco said. “But, obviously, that makes me feel happy. I love that man, man. He gives me so much confidence and every day says, ‘Hey, you’re going to be good, you’re going to be good, keep working hard.’ He sees how hard I’m working no matter what and says, ‘Hey, you’re OK, you’re going to be OK.’ I’m just happy, man, to be here, for real. I’m going to keep working no matter what. Like I always say, no matter what result, no matter how struggling I am, I’m going to keep working. I won’t drop my head. I’m going to keep my head up and keep fighting every at-bat, every pitch and every game I’ll be there.”

[DemDog]

What I have observed on this thread is the constant criticism of BOB not spending any money. I can buy that but for me, the most important thing is BC developing MVP caliber players. If BC can't do that then all of BOB's money will not help this team become relevant again.

[GreenWeenie]

0E2F270E252D4A0 wrote: What I have observed on this thread is the constant criticism of BOB not spending any money.  I can buy that but for me, the most important thing is BC developing MVP caliber players.  If BC can't do that then all of BOB's money will not help this team become relevant again. 


As has been proven numerous times, a club can "develop" until the cows come home and it will win RS games, but not much more than that.



Spend the money, and it has a chance to do some serious damage.



It's that simple.  It's that complex.

[SammyKhalifa]

556077777C4577777C7B77120 wrote: What I have observed on this thread is the constant criticism of BOB not spending any money.  I can buy that but for me, the most important thing is BC developing MVP caliber players.  If BC can't do that then all of BOB's money will not help this team become relevant again. 


As has been proven numerous times, a club can "develop" until the cows come home and it will win RS games, but not much more than that.



Spend the money, and it has a chance to do some serious damage.



It's that simple.  It's that complex.




I think building your own players still comes first though. That's true for both hi and low salary teams.

[shedman]

4D786F6F645D6F6F64636F0A0 wrote: What I have observed on this thread is the constant criticism of BOB not spending any money.  I can buy that but for me, the most important thing is BC developing MVP caliber players.  If BC can't do that then all of BOB's money will not help this team become relevant again. 


As has been proven numerous times, a club can "develop" until the cows come home and it will win RS games, but not much more than that.



Spend the money, and it has a chance to do some serious damage.



It's that simple.  It's that complex.


_______

We all know that the way to be successful is to build the heart of your team with some solid FA major league ball players and then supplement them with some pieces from your minor leagues. But Nutting/Cherington just will not spend any money to acquire any major league FA.