042924353223347477460 wrote: Hurdle isn't going anywhere after beginning a 4-year extension. No way Nutting will pay him to not manage while paying someone else to manage. It was such a farce to extend Hurdle. He was already a bad manager and the team would have benefited by replacing him. And now we're seeing the expected result of retaining a bad manager: more bad managing.
How many years did Tracy and Russel have left when they were fired? When do the other board members speak up? I assume that is how it works, the minority owners going to the majority owner.
I don't understand these line ups. I really, really don't.
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
717A727E7B7A612422556C747D7A7A3B767A150 wrote: Bell was alright last year with his .800 OPS. I would want that OPS closer to .900. If a player OPS's over .900, they will find a position for them. If they are at .775 they will probably find a spot too.
Don't you think Bell had a good season last year? If you don't, most do. His defense was bad last year, maybe not this bad, but it certainly wasn't great. But he hit 26 HRs, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS of .800. People didn't complain. Why are people complaining now? Is it because of his still bad defense or the fact that his OPS is .710 and he has 4 HRs?
Good hitting can make up for bad defense. Of course you want a player who can do both very well. Moran and Bell better start hitting because their gloves certainly won't keep them in the line up, but their bats can.
Did you open that link? Some Hall of Famers on that list and many guys played well over ten, fifteen years.
Nope. and that's the problem. your bar is way, way lower than mine. Last year Bell OPS'ed .800. because he was a 24 year old rookie, I'll take it and hope it improves. However, his poor defense cost him. He's like a 1.0 WAR player last year. Of course that's not acceptable. of course not.
you're shooting for .500, I guess you just don't realize it. I'm shooting for a WS
And you can discount WAR, that's fine, it's not perfect. But there's a very strong correlation with winning and WAR. Check out the team numbers when we won 98 games if you don't believe me.
Don't you think Bell had a good season last year? If you don't, most do. His defense was bad last year, maybe not this bad, but it certainly wasn't great. But he hit 26 HRs, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS of .800. People didn't complain. Why are people complaining now? Is it because of his still bad defense or the fact that his OPS is .710 and he has 4 HRs?
Good hitting can make up for bad defense. Of course you want a player who can do both very well. Moran and Bell better start hitting because their gloves certainly won't keep them in the line up, but their bats can.
Did you open that link? Some Hall of Famers on that list and many guys played well over ten, fifteen years.
Nope. and that's the problem. your bar is way, way lower than mine. Last year Bell OPS'ed .800. because he was a 24 year old rookie, I'll take it and hope it improves. However, his poor defense cost him. He's like a 1.0 WAR player last year. Of course that's not acceptable. of course not.
you're shooting for .500, I guess you just don't realize it. I'm shooting for a WS
And you can discount WAR, that's fine, it's not perfect. But there's a very strong correlation with winning and WAR. Check out the team numbers when we won 98 games if you don't believe me.
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
193C2F3A262D2627222A4E0 wrote: Honestly, Bell didn't have a good season last year. He put up an OPS+ of 108. It wasn't terrible, but it's not what you're wanting from your poor fielding first baseman either. Josh Bell is still looking for an offensive season that's as good as John Jaso's career mark. That should upset some people...
LOL exactly. Nobody wants to really address this Bell problem. he's so far away from "good" it's hard to express.
This dude is playing FIRST BASE. He can't just throw up an .800 OPS, not field, and call it a good year. It's not. A decent first year to build on, maybe.
Well this year we see that his defense is probably worse than last year on average. That's a big problem since even if he returns to last years defense, it won't be enough to be good. It just makes his offensive "good" level all the more harder to reach...
LOL exactly. Nobody wants to really address this Bell problem. he's so far away from "good" it's hard to express.
This dude is playing FIRST BASE. He can't just throw up an .800 OPS, not field, and call it a good year. It's not. A decent first year to build on, maybe.
Well this year we see that his defense is probably worse than last year on average. That's a big problem since even if he returns to last years defense, it won't be enough to be good. It just makes his offensive "good" level all the more harder to reach...
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
What concerns me most about the Pirates defense is that Moran, Bell and Polanco have the look of being fixtures at their positions going forward. That's 3 positions which will have sub-par defense for years to come. Now if all of those guys looked to be power bats that could drive an offense I could accept an ongoing issue with defense from them, but that is not the case. In fact at this point none of these three guys look to be even above average offensively at their respective positions.
To me this indicates a flawed plan regarding the structuring of this team. None of Moran, Polanco or Bell has the look of a player that a team should build around. You could perhaps tolerate any one of the three on a team with more meat on its bones than what the Pirates have, but to view those three as a future ensemble is simply depressing.
A young pitching staff is going to need a good defense behind it to at least have a chance at being competitive. I don't think NH has assembled the personnel to accomplish that, and Clint has been finding ways to manage that undermine whatever capable talent he has.
To me this indicates a flawed plan regarding the structuring of this team. None of Moran, Polanco or Bell has the look of a player that a team should build around. You could perhaps tolerate any one of the three on a team with more meat on its bones than what the Pirates have, but to view those three as a future ensemble is simply depressing.
A young pitching staff is going to need a good defense behind it to at least have a chance at being competitive. I don't think NH has assembled the personnel to accomplish that, and Clint has been finding ways to manage that undermine whatever capable talent he has.
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Bobster21
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
606B636F6A6B703533447D656C6B6B2A676B040 wrote: Hurdle isn't going anywhere after beginning a 4-year extension. No way Nutting will pay him to not manage while paying someone else to manage. It was such a farce to extend Hurdle. He was already a bad manager and the team would have benefited by replacing him. And now we're seeing the expected result of retaining a bad manager: more bad managing.
How many years did Tracy and Russel have left when they were fired? When do the other board members speak up? I assume that is how it works, the minority owners going to the majority owner.
I don't understand these line ups. I really, really don't.
Tracy was fired after the 2nd year of a 3-year contract. It was NH's 2nd year as GM and a new GM often wants his own guy in as mgr. It was part of a big organizational shakeup as senior director of player development Brian Graham; scouting director Ed Creech and director of baseball operations Jon Mercurio were also fired. Russell was also fired with 1 year remaining on his contract. Hurdle won't be fired in the 1st year of a 4-year extension by the guy who extended him.
How many years did Tracy and Russel have left when they were fired? When do the other board members speak up? I assume that is how it works, the minority owners going to the majority owner.
I don't understand these line ups. I really, really don't.
Tracy was fired after the 2nd year of a 3-year contract. It was NH's 2nd year as GM and a new GM often wants his own guy in as mgr. It was part of a big organizational shakeup as senior director of player development Brian Graham; scouting director Ed Creech and director of baseball operations Jon Mercurio were also fired. Russell was also fired with 1 year remaining on his contract. Hurdle won't be fired in the 1st year of a 4-year extension by the guy who extended him.
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
4F464E5F512B0 wrote: Honestly, Bell didn't have a good season last year. He put up an OPS+ of 108. It wasn't terrible, but it's not what you're wanting from your poor fielding first baseman either. Josh Bell is still looking for an offensive season that's as good as John Jaso's career mark. That should upset some people...
LOL exactly. Nobody wants to really address this Bell problem. he's so far away from "good" it's hard to express.
This dude is playing FIRST BASE. He can't just throw up an .800 OPS, not field, and call it a good year. It's not. A decent first year to build on, maybe.
yeah, last year was ok for a rookie year. This year there needed to be improvement. Bell is toward the bottom of first basemen in homers and ops. At least he does draw his share of walks and strikes out a lot less than some.
LOL exactly. Nobody wants to really address this Bell problem. he's so far away from "good" it's hard to express.
This dude is playing FIRST BASE. He can't just throw up an .800 OPS, not field, and call it a good year. It's not. A decent first year to build on, maybe.
yeah, last year was ok for a rookie year. This year there needed to be improvement. Bell is toward the bottom of first basemen in homers and ops. At least he does draw his share of walks and strikes out a lot less than some.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
545D55444A300 wrote: Bell was alright last year with his .800 OPS. I would want that OPS closer to .900. If a player OPS's over .900, they will find a position for them. If they are at .775 they will probably find a spot too.
Don't you think Bell had a good season last year? If you don't, most do. His defense was bad last year, maybe not this bad, but it certainly wasn't great. But he hit 26 HRs, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS of .800. People didn't complain. Why are people complaining now? Is it because of his still bad defense or the fact that his OPS is .710 and he has 4 HRs?
Good hitting can make up for bad defense. Of course you want a player who can do both very well. Moran and Bell better start hitting because their gloves certainly won't keep them in the line up, but their bats can.
Did you open that link? Some Hall of Famers on that list and many guys played well over ten, fifteen years.
Nope. and that's the problem. your bar is way, way lower than mine. Last year Bell OPS'ed .800. because he was a 24 year old rookie, I'll take it and hope it improves. However, his poor defense cost him. He's like a 1.0 WAR player last year. Of course that's not acceptable. of course not.
you're shooting for .500, I guess you just don't realize it. I'm shooting for a WS
And you can discount WAR, that's fine, it's not perfect. But there's a very strong correlation with winning and WAR. Check out the team numbers when we won 98 games if you don't believe me.
The Pirates won 98 games with Pedro Alvarez playing 1B.
The 2015 Pirates made the most errors in the NL and were ranked 13th in Fielding Percentage. They were 4th in batting average, 4th in on-base percentage, 4th in total bases, 4th in runs, 6th in OPS.
Don't you think Bell had a good season last year? If you don't, most do. His defense was bad last year, maybe not this bad, but it certainly wasn't great. But he hit 26 HRs, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS of .800. People didn't complain. Why are people complaining now? Is it because of his still bad defense or the fact that his OPS is .710 and he has 4 HRs?
Good hitting can make up for bad defense. Of course you want a player who can do both very well. Moran and Bell better start hitting because their gloves certainly won't keep them in the line up, but their bats can.
Did you open that link? Some Hall of Famers on that list and many guys played well over ten, fifteen years.
Nope. and that's the problem. your bar is way, way lower than mine. Last year Bell OPS'ed .800. because he was a 24 year old rookie, I'll take it and hope it improves. However, his poor defense cost him. He's like a 1.0 WAR player last year. Of course that's not acceptable. of course not.
you're shooting for .500, I guess you just don't realize it. I'm shooting for a WS
And you can discount WAR, that's fine, it's not perfect. But there's a very strong correlation with winning and WAR. Check out the team numbers when we won 98 games if you don't believe me.
The Pirates won 98 games with Pedro Alvarez playing 1B.
The 2015 Pirates made the most errors in the NL and were ranked 13th in Fielding Percentage. They were 4th in batting average, 4th in on-base percentage, 4th in total bases, 4th in runs, 6th in OPS.
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
2229212D2829327771063F272E2929682529460 wrote: It's always all or nothing with you. Defense is not more important than hitting. Of course not.
but terrible defense by Bell & Moran are like dragging around anchors. If you don't buy into UZR, that's fine. DRS hates them both too. Our eyes all agree they're very bad fielders.
So tell me what a player like that needs to hit in order to be a GOOD player? in your mind. Then, tell me what you think the probability is that it happens (they hit that well)
Nothing's going to change about Bell or Moran's defense much. They will always be bad. Some years may be better (Bell last year) some years may be terrible (bell this year) but they will never be average fielders.
In the AL, there is room for a crap defender in a lineup. He is penciled in as the DH. People do ignore defense of a player if said player is having a good year offensively. That can't be said for our weak defenders. Moran, I have to be honest - is doing better than I would have thought. Bell and Polanco are terrible defensively and aren't doing the job offensively. Bell - his last three games, there is some degree of hope. He had drawn a bunch of walks. Not exactly what you want from a power source, but its a start.
Dog will continue to defend or make excuses (starting rotation) because that's his desired/self defined role.
When you have a questionable roster that has flaws throughout, one of the things a team has to do well is play defense. Poor defense can lose you more games and have a knack of causing a downward spiral. It sinks into the minds of the guys on the mound too.
You really need to stop. You are attacking me even when you agree with me. Not sure why the Admins haven't noticed yet?
:'( You continuously bait people in almost every thread on this site.
but terrible defense by Bell & Moran are like dragging around anchors. If you don't buy into UZR, that's fine. DRS hates them both too. Our eyes all agree they're very bad fielders.
So tell me what a player like that needs to hit in order to be a GOOD player? in your mind. Then, tell me what you think the probability is that it happens (they hit that well)
Nothing's going to change about Bell or Moran's defense much. They will always be bad. Some years may be better (Bell last year) some years may be terrible (bell this year) but they will never be average fielders.
In the AL, there is room for a crap defender in a lineup. He is penciled in as the DH. People do ignore defense of a player if said player is having a good year offensively. That can't be said for our weak defenders. Moran, I have to be honest - is doing better than I would have thought. Bell and Polanco are terrible defensively and aren't doing the job offensively. Bell - his last three games, there is some degree of hope. He had drawn a bunch of walks. Not exactly what you want from a power source, but its a start.
Dog will continue to defend or make excuses (starting rotation) because that's his desired/self defined role.
When you have a questionable roster that has flaws throughout, one of the things a team has to do well is play defense. Poor defense can lose you more games and have a knack of causing a downward spiral. It sinks into the minds of the guys on the mound too.
You really need to stop. You are attacking me even when you agree with me. Not sure why the Admins haven't noticed yet?
:'( You continuously bait people in almost every thread on this site.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
28293223357572460 wrote: It's always all or nothing with you. Defense is not more important than hitting. Of course not.
but terrible defense by Bell & Moran are like dragging around anchors. If you don't buy into UZR, that's fine. DRS hates them both too. Our eyes all agree they're very bad fielders.
So tell me what a player like that needs to hit in order to be a GOOD player? in your mind. Then, tell me what you think the probability is that it happens (they hit that well)
Nothing's going to change about Bell or Moran's defense much. They will always be bad. Some years may be better (Bell last year) some years may be terrible (bell this year) but they will never be average fielders.
In the AL, there is room for a crap defender in a lineup. He is penciled in as the DH. People do ignore defense of a player if said player is having a good year offensively. That can't be said for our weak defenders. Moran, I have to be honest - is doing better than I would have thought. Bell and Polanco are terrible defensively and aren't doing the job offensively. Bell - his last three games, there is some degree of hope. He had drawn a bunch of walks. Not exactly what you want from a power source, but its a start.
Dog will continue to defend or make excuses (starting rotation) because that's his desired/self defined role.
When you have a questionable roster that has flaws throughout, one of the things a team has to do well is play defense. Poor defense can lose you more games and have a knack of causing a downward spiral. It sinks into the minds of the guys on the mound too.
You really need to stop. You are attacking me even when you agree with me. Not sure why the Admins haven't noticed yet?
:'( You continuously bait people in almost every thread on this site.
You can stop too. All you do is attack me as well.
I love how asking questions is now "baiting" when someone doesn't have an answer.
but terrible defense by Bell & Moran are like dragging around anchors. If you don't buy into UZR, that's fine. DRS hates them both too. Our eyes all agree they're very bad fielders.
So tell me what a player like that needs to hit in order to be a GOOD player? in your mind. Then, tell me what you think the probability is that it happens (they hit that well)
Nothing's going to change about Bell or Moran's defense much. They will always be bad. Some years may be better (Bell last year) some years may be terrible (bell this year) but they will never be average fielders.
In the AL, there is room for a crap defender in a lineup. He is penciled in as the DH. People do ignore defense of a player if said player is having a good year offensively. That can't be said for our weak defenders. Moran, I have to be honest - is doing better than I would have thought. Bell and Polanco are terrible defensively and aren't doing the job offensively. Bell - his last three games, there is some degree of hope. He had drawn a bunch of walks. Not exactly what you want from a power source, but its a start.
Dog will continue to defend or make excuses (starting rotation) because that's his desired/self defined role.
When you have a questionable roster that has flaws throughout, one of the things a team has to do well is play defense. Poor defense can lose you more games and have a knack of causing a downward spiral. It sinks into the minds of the guys on the mound too.
You really need to stop. You are attacking me even when you agree with me. Not sure why the Admins haven't noticed yet?
:'( You continuously bait people in almost every thread on this site.
You can stop too. All you do is attack me as well.
I love how asking questions is now "baiting" when someone doesn't have an answer.
6 wins and 18 Losses Changes Need To Be Made
3A31393530312A6F691E273F363131703D315E0 wrote: Bell was alright last year with his .800 OPS. I would want that OPS closer to .900. If a player OPS's over .900, they will find a position for them. If they are at .775 they will probably find a spot too.
Don't you think Bell had a good season last year? If you don't, most do. His defense was bad last year, maybe not this bad, but it certainly wasn't great. But he hit 26 HRs, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS of .800. People didn't complain. Why are people complaining now? Is it because of his still bad defense or the fact that his OPS is .710 and he has 4 HRs?
Good hitting can make up for bad defense. Of course you want a player who can do both very well. Moran and Bell better start hitting because their gloves certainly won't keep them in the line up, but their bats can.
Did you open that link? Some Hall of Famers on that list and many guys played well over ten, fifteen years.
Nope. and that's the problem. your bar is way, way lower than mine. Last year Bell OPS'ed .800. because he was a 24 year old rookie, I'll take it and hope it improves. However, his poor defense cost him. He's like a 1.0 WAR player last year. Of course that's not acceptable. of course not.
you're shooting for .500, I guess you just don't realize it. I'm shooting for a WS
And you can discount WAR, that's fine, it's not perfect. But there's a very strong correlation with winning and WAR. Check out the team numbers when we won 98 games if you don't believe me.
The Pirates won 98 games with Pedro Alvarez playing 1B.
The 2015 Pirates made the most errors in the NL and were ranked 13th in Fielding Percentage. They were 4th in batting average, 4th in on-base percentage, 4th in total bases, 4th in runs, 6th in OPS.
Who were the team WAR leaders in 2015 and what were they?
Don't you think Bell had a good season last year? If you don't, most do. His defense was bad last year, maybe not this bad, but it certainly wasn't great. But he hit 26 HRs, drove in 90 runs and had an OPS of .800. People didn't complain. Why are people complaining now? Is it because of his still bad defense or the fact that his OPS is .710 and he has 4 HRs?
Good hitting can make up for bad defense. Of course you want a player who can do both very well. Moran and Bell better start hitting because their gloves certainly won't keep them in the line up, but their bats can.
Did you open that link? Some Hall of Famers on that list and many guys played well over ten, fifteen years.
Nope. and that's the problem. your bar is way, way lower than mine. Last year Bell OPS'ed .800. because he was a 24 year old rookie, I'll take it and hope it improves. However, his poor defense cost him. He's like a 1.0 WAR player last year. Of course that's not acceptable. of course not.
you're shooting for .500, I guess you just don't realize it. I'm shooting for a WS
And you can discount WAR, that's fine, it's not perfect. But there's a very strong correlation with winning and WAR. Check out the team numbers when we won 98 games if you don't believe me.
The Pirates won 98 games with Pedro Alvarez playing 1B.
The 2015 Pirates made the most errors in the NL and were ranked 13th in Fielding Percentage. They were 4th in batting average, 4th in on-base percentage, 4th in total bases, 4th in runs, 6th in OPS.
Who were the team WAR leaders in 2015 and what were they?