676C64686D6C773234437A626B6C6C2D606C030 wrote: Well, out of 37 votes only 9 want Liriano over Nova (Almost 76%) so far.
I think Liriano can have a very good year in the AL, but I (and mostly others here) would still rather have Nova.
it's not an either or proposition. We had a terrible 3/5 of a rotation last year and injuries everywhere. The fantasy that we had to dump Liriano to make room for Nova is laughable.
Then again, so is the propaganda that a starter will do better in the AL.
Suckers. Now we go trade for Jose Q? Alright. There's the top end quality we gave away last year for some $
Liriano or Nova?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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OrlandoMerced
Liriano or Nova?
Liriano was part of that terrible 3/5ths.
I don't think anyone would suggest that switching to the AL is why Liriano pitched better.
I'm guessing that he was getting more hitters to swing out of the zone. The NL all read the series of articles on fangraphs telling them to stop swinging at his pitches.
Assuming that the 2017 strike zone is the same as the 2016 strike zone, I'm very happy that they aren't trotting liriano out there every fifth day.
I don't think anyone would suggest that switching to the AL is why Liriano pitched better.
I'm guessing that he was getting more hitters to swing out of the zone. The NL all read the series of articles on fangraphs telling them to stop swinging at his pitches.
Assuming that the 2017 strike zone is the same as the 2016 strike zone, I'm very happy that they aren't trotting liriano out there every fifth day.
Liriano or Nova?
18253B363933381A3225343233570 wrote: Liriano was part of that terrible 3/5ths.
I don't think anyone would suggest that switching to the AL is why Liriano pitched better.
I'm guessing that he was getting more hitters to swing out of the zone. The NL all read the series of articles on fangraphs telling them to stop swinging at his pitches.
Assuming that the 2017 strike zone is the same as the 2016 strike zone, I'm very happy that they aren't trotting liriano out there every fifth day.
What are you talking about? Our own GM said he isn't surprised he pitched better after switching to the AL.
Alot of the excuses out of NH mouth are at best half-truths and at worst completely untrue. When there are fans who believe it and sportswriters who don't challenge it, why not keep blabbering lies?
You might be on to something though...
The NL hitters read fangraphs and the AL hitters didn't lolol. It took 3 years, and the NL hitters finally read fangraphs!
After we don't trade for Jose Q, you and dog can tell us how signing Nova was the big offseason move and proves we are committed to winning now. You can say how hard we tried to sign Jose Q, but the price was just too high. A for effort. Just like every year right?
Maybe a thread could be started about how awesome a GM we have who is going with an all Right Handed starting rotation in a home ballpark that benefits left handed pitchers. Then again, the chances Brault gets a scholarship into the #5 spot after we don't trade for Jose Q us quite high
Might not get to celebrate that all RHP rotation strategy afterall
I don't think anyone would suggest that switching to the AL is why Liriano pitched better.
I'm guessing that he was getting more hitters to swing out of the zone. The NL all read the series of articles on fangraphs telling them to stop swinging at his pitches.
Assuming that the 2017 strike zone is the same as the 2016 strike zone, I'm very happy that they aren't trotting liriano out there every fifth day.
What are you talking about? Our own GM said he isn't surprised he pitched better after switching to the AL.
Alot of the excuses out of NH mouth are at best half-truths and at worst completely untrue. When there are fans who believe it and sportswriters who don't challenge it, why not keep blabbering lies?
You might be on to something though...
The NL hitters read fangraphs and the AL hitters didn't lolol. It took 3 years, and the NL hitters finally read fangraphs!After we don't trade for Jose Q, you and dog can tell us how signing Nova was the big offseason move and proves we are committed to winning now. You can say how hard we tried to sign Jose Q, but the price was just too high. A for effort. Just like every year right?
Maybe a thread could be started about how awesome a GM we have who is going with an all Right Handed starting rotation in a home ballpark that benefits left handed pitchers. Then again, the chances Brault gets a scholarship into the #5 spot after we don't trade for Jose Q us quite high
Might not get to celebrate that all RHP rotation strategy afterall
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OrlandoMerced
Liriano or Nova?
That fangraphs comment was obviously tongue in cheek, I'll just stick to being direct in addressing this topic.
I'm also not surprised that Liriano pitched better after the trade.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?pl ... position=P
I'd like to see a breakdown of where his pitches were before and after trade.
In his 49.1 innings with the Blue Jays, he walked 16 guys.
In his 113.2 inning with the Pirates he walked 69 guys.
Did he all of a sudden start throwing in the zone? Or were guys chasing his stuff out of the zone after the switch out of the NL?
This isn't some question that can be analyzed in a vacuum, and unless you have some as yet unexpressed insight, your position on the trade is based on incomplete information and a shaky foundation.
As for the Quintana deal, I don't see why I would preemptively criticize the GM for not pulling a trigger on a deal when I have no clue what the components being discussed are. I think that all we know is that everyone assumes Glasnow will be the central piece of that trade. Again, unless you have some as yet unexpressed insight as to what the White Sox' ask is from Pittsburgh, your position is based on incomplete information. Unless we're aiming for sports radio talk show level discussion, I'd rather not draw definitive conclusions from incomplete information.
I'm also not surprised that Liriano pitched better after the trade.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?pl ... position=P
I'd like to see a breakdown of where his pitches were before and after trade.
In his 49.1 innings with the Blue Jays, he walked 16 guys.
In his 113.2 inning with the Pirates he walked 69 guys.
Did he all of a sudden start throwing in the zone? Or were guys chasing his stuff out of the zone after the switch out of the NL?
This isn't some question that can be analyzed in a vacuum, and unless you have some as yet unexpressed insight, your position on the trade is based on incomplete information and a shaky foundation.
As for the Quintana deal, I don't see why I would preemptively criticize the GM for not pulling a trigger on a deal when I have no clue what the components being discussed are. I think that all we know is that everyone assumes Glasnow will be the central piece of that trade. Again, unless you have some as yet unexpressed insight as to what the White Sox' ask is from Pittsburgh, your position is based on incomplete information. Unless we're aiming for sports radio talk show level discussion, I'd rather not draw definitive conclusions from incomplete information.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Liriano or Nova?
6D646C7D73090 wrote: Liriano was part of that terrible 3/5ths.
I don't think anyone would suggest that switching to the AL is why Liriano pitched better.
I'm guessing that he was getting more hitters to swing out of the zone. The NL all read the series of articles on fangraphs telling them to stop swinging at his pitches.
Assuming that the 2017 strike zone is the same as the 2016 strike zone, I'm very happy that they aren't trotting liriano out there every fifth day.
What are you talking about? Our own GM said he isn't surprised he pitched better after switching to the AL.
Alot of the excuses out of NH mouth are at best half-truths and at worst completely untrue. When there are fans who believe it and sportswriters who don't challenge it, why not keep blabbering lies?
You might be on to something though... The NL hitters read fangraphs and the AL hitters didn't lolol. It took 3 years, and the NL hitters finally read fangraphs!
After we don't trade for Jose Q, you and dog can tell us how signing Nova was the big offseason move and proves we are committed to winning now. You can say how hard we tried to sign Jose Q, but the price was just too high. A for effort. Just like every year right?
Maybe a thread could be started about how awesome a GM we have who is going with an all Right Handed starting rotation in a home ballpark that benefits left handed pitchers. Then again, the chances Brault gets a scholarship into the #5 spot after we don't trade for Jose Q us quite high
Might not get to celebrate that all RHP rotation strategy afterall
I love how the majority of the board (voters, at least) would rather have Nova over Liriano and you single me out?
It doesn't matter what Huntington says either. If you don't believe him, he is just a liar. He has explained the Liriano trade a few times (I heard him live at Pirates Fest) now, yet he is lying in how it went down?
Personally, I don't think Quintana is needed. If he is brought in, great. But if it costs McCutchen, Glasnow, and Keller I probably won't be on board (more has to come back). I am in the Chad Kuhl boat as I think he is being over looked. Three quality starters (Cole, Taillon, Nova) can carry the rotation especially with the young talent to fill out the back end (Kuhl, Hutchison, Glasnow, Williams, Brault, Kingham, Duncan, and Cumpton).
There are more right-handed batters in baseball too. I don't care if there is no lefty in the rotation. I don't want a lefty to just have a lefty. A quality lefty is fine, but not just a filler to have one in the rotation. This is also why I don't want Watson closing. Watson will face more right-handed batters when the game could be on the line.
I currently like this team. I think they need another bullpen arm and a power bat on the bench. With that said, the current players can't have down years like last year or they will be in trouble again.
I don't think anyone would suggest that switching to the AL is why Liriano pitched better.
I'm guessing that he was getting more hitters to swing out of the zone. The NL all read the series of articles on fangraphs telling them to stop swinging at his pitches.
Assuming that the 2017 strike zone is the same as the 2016 strike zone, I'm very happy that they aren't trotting liriano out there every fifth day.
What are you talking about? Our own GM said he isn't surprised he pitched better after switching to the AL.
Alot of the excuses out of NH mouth are at best half-truths and at worst completely untrue. When there are fans who believe it and sportswriters who don't challenge it, why not keep blabbering lies?
You might be on to something though...
The NL hitters read fangraphs and the AL hitters didn't lolol. It took 3 years, and the NL hitters finally read fangraphs!After we don't trade for Jose Q, you and dog can tell us how signing Nova was the big offseason move and proves we are committed to winning now. You can say how hard we tried to sign Jose Q, but the price was just too high. A for effort. Just like every year right?
Maybe a thread could be started about how awesome a GM we have who is going with an all Right Handed starting rotation in a home ballpark that benefits left handed pitchers. Then again, the chances Brault gets a scholarship into the #5 spot after we don't trade for Jose Q us quite high
Might not get to celebrate that all RHP rotation strategy afterall
I love how the majority of the board (voters, at least) would rather have Nova over Liriano and you single me out?
It doesn't matter what Huntington says either. If you don't believe him, he is just a liar. He has explained the Liriano trade a few times (I heard him live at Pirates Fest) now, yet he is lying in how it went down?
Personally, I don't think Quintana is needed. If he is brought in, great. But if it costs McCutchen, Glasnow, and Keller I probably won't be on board (more has to come back). I am in the Chad Kuhl boat as I think he is being over looked. Three quality starters (Cole, Taillon, Nova) can carry the rotation especially with the young talent to fill out the back end (Kuhl, Hutchison, Glasnow, Williams, Brault, Kingham, Duncan, and Cumpton).
There are more right-handed batters in baseball too. I don't care if there is no lefty in the rotation. I don't want a lefty to just have a lefty. A quality lefty is fine, but not just a filler to have one in the rotation. This is also why I don't want Watson closing. Watson will face more right-handed batters when the game could be on the line.
I currently like this team. I think they need another bullpen arm and a power bat on the bench. With that said, the current players can't have down years like last year or they will be in trouble again.
Liriano or Nova?
Thanks. In the above:
1) you're set with the roster, short a pen piece and a bench player (two minor additions)
2) you're good with an all RH rotation throwing 81 games a year in PNC. I.E. Don't see it as questionable talent strategy.
You basically just confirmed what I posted and you responded to. Really a lot sooner than I expected! Usually it's not this early in the offseason for you to fall in line.
All set just like last year. Good soldier
1) you're set with the roster, short a pen piece and a bench player (two minor additions)
2) you're good with an all RH rotation throwing 81 games a year in PNC. I.E. Don't see it as questionable talent strategy.
You basically just confirmed what I posted and you responded to. Really a lot sooner than I expected! Usually it's not this early in the offseason for you to fall in line.
All set just like last year. Good soldier
Liriano or Nova?
4479676A656F64466E79686E6F0B0 wrote: That fangraphs comment was obviously tongue in cheek, I'll just stick to being direct in addressing this topic.
I'm also not surprised that Liriano pitched better after the trade.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?pl ... position=P
I'd like to see a breakdown of where his pitches were before and after trade.
In his 49.1 innings with the Blue Jays, he walked 16 guys.
In his 113.2 inning with the Pirates he walked 69 guys.
Did he all of a sudden start throwing in the zone? Or were guys chasing his stuff out of the zone after the switch out of the NL?
All you have to do is take your link and select the pitchfx tab. Set dates Aug 5 through end of year and you will see everything after the trade. Reset dates to opening day to Aug 4 and you'll see pre-trade numbers.
Also career lines are available same way
So now that you have your information, let me know what you think happened
I'm also not surprised that Liriano pitched better after the trade.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?pl ... position=P
I'd like to see a breakdown of where his pitches were before and after trade.
In his 49.1 innings with the Blue Jays, he walked 16 guys.
In his 113.2 inning with the Pirates he walked 69 guys.
Did he all of a sudden start throwing in the zone? Or were guys chasing his stuff out of the zone after the switch out of the NL?
All you have to do is take your link and select the pitchfx tab. Set dates Aug 5 through end of year and you will see everything after the trade. Reset dates to opening day to Aug 4 and you'll see pre-trade numbers.
Also career lines are available same way
So now that you have your information, let me know what you think happened
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OrlandoMerced
Liriano or Nova?
717870616F150 wrote: Thanks. In the above:
1) you're set with the roster, short a pen piece and a bench player (two minor additions)
2) you're good with an all RH rotation throwing 81 games a year in PNC. I.E. Don't see it as questionable talent strategy.
You basically just confirmed what I posted and you responded to. Really a lot sooner than I expected! Usually it's not this early in the offseason for you to fall in line.
All set just like last year. Good soldier
I also am ok with the current roster with some minor changes, and don't think an all RH rotation is some sort of epic mismanagement, especially with all those lefties in the bullpen.
The Pirates aren't operating a propaganda machine. They're a baseball organization that has positioned themselves to compete for a playoff spot while also being very risk averse. At some point I would like to see them be a little more aggressive with rentals for a WS run, but I don't see every move they make as evidence of fan deception.
1) you're set with the roster, short a pen piece and a bench player (two minor additions)
2) you're good with an all RH rotation throwing 81 games a year in PNC. I.E. Don't see it as questionable talent strategy.
You basically just confirmed what I posted and you responded to. Really a lot sooner than I expected! Usually it's not this early in the offseason for you to fall in line.
All set just like last year. Good soldier
I also am ok with the current roster with some minor changes, and don't think an all RH rotation is some sort of epic mismanagement, especially with all those lefties in the bullpen.
The Pirates aren't operating a propaganda machine. They're a baseball organization that has positioned themselves to compete for a playoff spot while also being very risk averse. At some point I would like to see them be a little more aggressive with rentals for a WS run, but I don't see every move they make as evidence of fan deception.
Liriano or Nova?
Great stuff. Thanks for confirming. All RH rotation isn't necessarily Epic mismanagement. But not rostering to take advantage of park factors when you're resource starved is what it is. Holding Liriano would have made sense in that regard as well
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OrlandoMerced
Liriano or Nova?
6C656D7C72080 wrote:
All you have to do is take your link and select the pitchfx tab. Set dates Aug 5 through end of year and you will see everything after the trade. Reset dates to opening day to Aug 4 and you'll see pre-trade numbers.
Also career lines are available same way
So now that you have your information, let me know what you think happened
If you look at the swing percentage for those low pitches out of the zone, when he was with the Pirates, he was getting a 40-50% swing rate on low pitches outside of the zone, with the blue jays, he was getting 60-70%.
He was also throwing more pitches up in the zone with the Blue Jays. So that might have been a minor adjustment to get more first pitch strikes or something. But looking at those charts, I found data that supported my original point. NL hitters weren't chasing his sliders out of the zone, when he moved to the AL, the hitters that hadn't seen him the last three years chased pitches out of the zone.
All you have to do is take your link and select the pitchfx tab. Set dates Aug 5 through end of year and you will see everything after the trade. Reset dates to opening day to Aug 4 and you'll see pre-trade numbers.
Also career lines are available same way
So now that you have your information, let me know what you think happened
If you look at the swing percentage for those low pitches out of the zone, when he was with the Pirates, he was getting a 40-50% swing rate on low pitches outside of the zone, with the blue jays, he was getting 60-70%.
He was also throwing more pitches up in the zone with the Blue Jays. So that might have been a minor adjustment to get more first pitch strikes or something. But looking at those charts, I found data that supported my original point. NL hitters weren't chasing his sliders out of the zone, when he moved to the AL, the hitters that hadn't seen him the last three years chased pitches out of the zone.