With all the new talent coming into the organization I thought I would take a stab at when we will be contenders and what that lineup may look like.
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
The one thing that stood out about your line-up is that two of the outfielders began their careers as infielders. That confirms that there'll still be no legitimate outfielders in the organization come 2024, which is nuts.
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Bobster21
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
Starting pitching is going to be the main problem. Established, effective pitchers cost a lot more than the Pirates will pay. And it's very difficult to develop pitchers thru the farm system because by the time they've spent 3-4 years in MLB and are reaching their potential, the window between that point and when they are traded before they can leave via free agency becomes very narrow.
Look at the winning 2013-15 teams. In 2013 Burnett and Liriano were veterans who appeared washed up before reviving their careers with the Pirates. Cole hadn't reached his potential and Locke and Morton always struggled. Same story in 2014 except Volquez replaced Burnett as the seemingly washed up veteran enjoying a resurgence. And they got unexpected mileage out of Vance Worley that he was never able to repeat. In 2015 Locke and Morton continued to struggle and Burnett returned to replace Volquez. And when Burnett was hurt they found Happ who appeared to be another washed up veteran but totally turned his career around with the Pirates. And Cole finally approached the potential everyone knew he had but would not be fully realized until he left 3 years later following 2 subpar years.
So who are the current minor league pitchers who are going to be star major league pitchers by 2024? And/or who are going to be the inexpensive washed up veterans who defy the odds and suddenly turn their careers around with the Pirates? I think the plan will have to be to piece together somehow, some way just enough starting pitching to win if the hitting and defense are good enough. That's going to be the biggest challenge.
Look at the winning 2013-15 teams. In 2013 Burnett and Liriano were veterans who appeared washed up before reviving their careers with the Pirates. Cole hadn't reached his potential and Locke and Morton always struggled. Same story in 2014 except Volquez replaced Burnett as the seemingly washed up veteran enjoying a resurgence. And they got unexpected mileage out of Vance Worley that he was never able to repeat. In 2015 Locke and Morton continued to struggle and Burnett returned to replace Volquez. And when Burnett was hurt they found Happ who appeared to be another washed up veteran but totally turned his career around with the Pirates. And Cole finally approached the potential everyone knew he had but would not be fully realized until he left 3 years later following 2 subpar years.
So who are the current minor league pitchers who are going to be star major league pitchers by 2024? And/or who are going to be the inexpensive washed up veterans who defy the odds and suddenly turn their careers around with the Pirates? I think the plan will have to be to piece together somehow, some way just enough starting pitching to win if the hitting and defense are good enough. That's going to be the biggest challenge.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
I don't assume for a minute that every young guy will remain with the club that long. Some wash out. Some are dealt.
I'm not banking on Reynolds being here that full season.
Other points have already been raised that I agree with.
It's nice to project, but I'm not sure how fruitfull it is. So many things can happen. That's just with our team. Then, you have what other teams will do.
I'm not banking on Reynolds being here that full season.
Other points have already been raised that I agree with.
It's nice to project, but I'm not sure how fruitfull it is. So many things can happen. That's just with our team. Then, you have what other teams will do.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
Obviously there is no way to tell who will wash out. The majority of pitchers do. No way to tell who would be signed as a FA if any.
This was just a fun exercise to see where the best of our minor leaguers would fit and when we might have a solid team.
If they continue to develop and put up solid numbers as those lister have then I believe we have a bright future ( of course a future without Nutting would be the best outcome)
FYI: I am intrigued by Matt Fraizer. He was drafted in 2019 (Third round) he is a solid 6’3” 205 lb outfielder that bats left handed.
He was just promoted to Altoona. At Greensboro he was batting .314 with 20HR, 50 RBI, .400 OBP, .576 SLG and 14 SB
Someone to keep an eye on. He’s 23
This was just a fun exercise to see where the best of our minor leaguers would fit and when we might have a solid team.
If they continue to develop and put up solid numbers as those lister have then I believe we have a bright future ( of course a future without Nutting would be the best outcome)
FYI: I am intrigued by Matt Fraizer. He was drafted in 2019 (Third round) he is a solid 6’3” 205 lb outfielder that bats left handed.
He was just promoted to Altoona. At Greensboro he was batting .314 with 20HR, 50 RBI, .400 OBP, .576 SLG and 14 SB
Someone to keep an eye on. He’s 23
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rucker59@gmail.com
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
1B3E3D3D28033E363423510 wrote: Obviously there is no way to tell who will wash out. The majority of pitchers do. No way to tell who would be signed as a FA if any.
This was just a fun exercise to see where the best of our minor leaguers would fit and when we might have a solid team.
If they continue to develop and put up solid numbers as those lister have then I believe we have a bright future ( of course a future without Nutting would be the best outcome)
FYI: I am intrigued by Matt Fraizer. He was drafted in 2019 (Third round) he is a solid 6’3” 205 lb outfielder that bats left handed.
He was just promoted to Altoona. At Greensboro he was batting .314 with 20HR, 50 RBI, .400 OBP, .576 SLG and 14 SB
Someone to keep an eye on. He’s 23
I loved you original post. Not because it was viewed through rose colored glasses but because your analysis looks really good AND I expect this is exactly what Ben and his team are doing in the War Room.
What you illustrate is that a real team is being constructed which is very different than trying to patch a team together in the winter for the next season.
I’m hoping 2023 we will see the team being assembled in Pittsburgh. And like you I think 2024 —> is looking really good. Maybe a division winner. Maybe a WS winner.
I can say that realistically because I have no doubt BC is thinking the exact same thing.
And I can say that because your lineup above allows Ben to start identifying his weakest spots and make plans to address. The above will be very different in 2024 because I expect there will be several spots upgraded. The above is promising. 2024 will be better because the above is in place and Ben will improve it.
I have no doubt Ben is very aware of the need for pitching. I suspect Ben has made it clear to Nutting the need for pitching. I think the Pirates need to develop ## 2, 3, and 5 and plenty of depth. I expect them to sign or trade for a #1 and a #4. If Nutting does not free up the money then I expect Ben to be gone and Nutting already knows this.
I’m excited by the future. We spend enough time with no hope. With your lineup, the remaining timeline, and BC - I see a great deal of hope. Maybe a championship.
This was just a fun exercise to see where the best of our minor leaguers would fit and when we might have a solid team.
If they continue to develop and put up solid numbers as those lister have then I believe we have a bright future ( of course a future without Nutting would be the best outcome)
FYI: I am intrigued by Matt Fraizer. He was drafted in 2019 (Third round) he is a solid 6’3” 205 lb outfielder that bats left handed.
He was just promoted to Altoona. At Greensboro he was batting .314 with 20HR, 50 RBI, .400 OBP, .576 SLG and 14 SB
Someone to keep an eye on. He’s 23
I loved you original post. Not because it was viewed through rose colored glasses but because your analysis looks really good AND I expect this is exactly what Ben and his team are doing in the War Room.
What you illustrate is that a real team is being constructed which is very different than trying to patch a team together in the winter for the next season.
I’m hoping 2023 we will see the team being assembled in Pittsburgh. And like you I think 2024 —> is looking really good. Maybe a division winner. Maybe a WS winner.
I can say that realistically because I have no doubt BC is thinking the exact same thing.
And I can say that because your lineup above allows Ben to start identifying his weakest spots and make plans to address. The above will be very different in 2024 because I expect there will be several spots upgraded. The above is promising. 2024 will be better because the above is in place and Ben will improve it.
I have no doubt Ben is very aware of the need for pitching. I suspect Ben has made it clear to Nutting the need for pitching. I think the Pirates need to develop ## 2, 3, and 5 and plenty of depth. I expect them to sign or trade for a #1 and a #4. If Nutting does not free up the money then I expect Ben to be gone and Nutting already knows this.
I’m excited by the future. We spend enough time with no hope. With your lineup, the remaining timeline, and BC - I see a great deal of hope. Maybe a championship.
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WildwoodDave2
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
47626161745F626A687F0D0 wrote: With all the new talent coming into the organization I thought I would take a stab at when we will be contenders and what that lineup may look like.
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Very good thread. Also, I believe Bob is stockpiling talent ensure that when it comes time for us to be buyers, he won't deplete the farm system
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Very good thread. Also, I believe Bob is stockpiling talent ensure that when it comes time for us to be buyers, he won't deplete the farm system
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WildwoodDave2
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
1927222A3921212A0A2F382B7C4E0 wrote: With all the new talent coming into the organization I thought I would take a stab at when we will be contenders and what that lineup may look like.
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Very good thread. Also, I believe Bob is stockpiling talent ensure that when it comes time for us to be buyers, he won't deplete the farm system
after just turning 74, I hope I am here to see it.
;D
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Very good thread. Also, I believe Bob is stockpiling talent ensure that when it comes time for us to be buyers, he won't deplete the farm system
after just turning 74, I hope I am here to see it.
;DYour 2024 NL Central Champs
605E5B53405858537356415205370 wrote: With all the new talent coming into the organization I thought I would take a stab at when we will be contenders and what that lineup may look like.
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Very good thread. Also, I believe Bob is stockpiling talent ensure that when it comes time for us to be buyers, he won't deplete the farm system
after just turning 74, I hope I am here to see it. ;D
I heard someone say that 74 is the new 44.
Here is my guess based on data from this year
2024 we finally win a division
Starting lineup:
1) Gonzales 2B
2) O’Neill Cruz RF
3) Reynolds CF
4) Martin 1B
5) Davis C
6) Hayes 3B
7) Park LF
8) Peguero SS
Bench:
Rodriguez or Bins C
Marcano INF
Matt Frazier OF
Mitchell OF
Bae INF
Suwinski OF
SP- This is a crapshoot
1) Contreras
2) Yajure
3) Priester
4)Miodzinski
5) Omar Cruz
BP-?????
Knocking on the door
Jared Jones P
Solometo P
Malone P
Head OF
White OF
Bishop OF
Chapman SS/P
Who do you think will lead the Bucs to the promised land?
Very good thread. Also, I believe Bob is stockpiling talent ensure that when it comes time for us to be buyers, he won't deplete the farm system
after just turning 74, I hope I am here to see it.
;DI heard someone say that 74 is the new 44.
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ChillinStation
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:40 pm
Your 2024 NL Central Champs
We should trade Cruz for a young pitcher . Cruz is always hurt.