Bucs Shortstop in 2011?

[Bucs Fan in GA]

I know we have discussed Jason Bartlett of the Rays, JJ Hardy of the Twins and a number of posters have voiced their dissatisfaction with incumbent SS-Ronny Cedeno.

With the Cards obtaining Ryan Theriot from the Dodgers earlier this week,  Tony LaRussa has made it known that Brendan Ryan, good glove, up and down bat, is available.

For discussion sake...what do fellow posters think NH will do tonight?

A) Not offer Cedeno arbitration, cutting him loose and going after one of the available SS-Hardy, Bartlett, or Ray.
B) Sticking with Rony Cedeno and working out a lower salary through arbitration
C) Signing Cedeno and making him a backup utility player

If the Bucs go the route of dealing for Hardy, Bartlett or Ryan how do you think NH will go about getting a new shortstop?

Your Thoughts …Get Clint some defense at SS!

Beat'em Bucs

[ECBucs]

I would tender Cedeno, he is not going to make enough money to break the bank (will he even get Ramon Vazquez money?)

[CentralCABucsFan]

I certainly tender Cedeno because his cost is low enough, and he would be a good backup middle infielder, as he has played plenty of 2nd base in the majors.  Any of the other SS options are not a sure bet to perform, or stay healthy, so Cedeno provides us with depth at one our positions of the least depth.

I think the SS options should include the two free agents that were the primary shortstops on two playoff caliber teams - Orlando Cabrera, and Jerry Hairston.  So that makes 5 options with only the Orioles and Padres as other teams reportedly still looking for shortstops.

I kind of like Brendan Ryan as an option.  I've seen some streaks where he really hit well, and streaks where he really hit poorly, but his defense has always looked stellar to me.  I'm not real up on the defensive metrics, but I'd be interested how those metrics compare these shortstop options (how would they get rated 1-6 for defense alone):

Hardy
Ryan
Bartlett
Cabrera
Hairston
Cedeno

[MaineBucs]

I believe NH offers Cedeno arbitratrion.  At present, the Pirates have few reasonable internal options to Cedeno, which is really sad since Cedeno is a marginal player.  I believe Pittsburgh should be able to ink Cedeno for less than $1.5 mil which is not too much for next year.  That said, by 2012, Pittsburgh really needs to find an alternative that can post better offensive numbers.

I believe we keep Cedeno and that NH will continue to explore ways to upgrade at the position.  I do not consider Bartlett an upgrade, nor do I feel Ryan is an upgrade.  I would prefer Hardy to Cedeno, but not if the asking price (what the team would need to trade to acquire him) is too high.  If Hardy becomes a free agent, I could see NH pursuing him and offering him a fairly high 1 year contract.  If Hardy were to be acquired, Cedeno could be a short-term (1 year) option as an infield reserve.

One of the complaints against Ronny has been his lack of consistency.  I took a quick look at his month-to-month offensive stats from last year.  Stated simply, he was all over the map when it came to offensive production.  In June, his low, he had only 7 hits, and no extra base hits and posted an OPS of .256.  Conversely, in July, in only 12 more at-bats, he had 23 hits, including 10 doubles, and had an ops of .916.  While inconsistency is an issue for most players, if Ronny could hit more frequently like he did in May and July of last year, and less of what he did in April and June, there would be no need to talk about finding another shortstop this off-season.

In short --- Cedeno isn't much, but I feel he is still cheap and young enough that the Pirates do not need to completely kick him to the curb yet.  Sign him and use him as a reserve if you find someone better.                            

[scrapiron]

I think they should and will tender Cedeno, and I think they will work out a deal before it comes to a hearing.  They should still pursue another SS and let them compete for the starting position.  Even if he gets beaten out for the starting position, Cedeno makes a better middle IF sub than Diaz or Ciriaco.

[WTM]

I'm guessing the Pirates are scrambling to do something before midnight.  If they acquire a SS, Cedeno gets non-tendered.  Could be a late night.

[scrapiron]

I'm guessing the Pirates are scrambling to do something before midnight.  If they acquire a SS, Cedeno gets non-tendered.  Could be a late night.

I agree.  If they can get something done beforehand, Cedeno is non-tendered. 

[GoBucs21]

I'm guessing the Pirates are scrambling to do something before midnight.  If they acquire a SS, Cedeno gets non-tendered.  Could be a late night.

Agreed.  I just think Cedeno at $2M is better than giving up a reliever and paying Bartlett $5M.  If it were Hardy, I might make the deal depending on who the pitcher is.

I think either Hardy or Bartlett is a one year deal.

[Xiga]

I think they definitely should tender him, even if they also bring in another SS. Cedeno is a talented guy that shows flashes of being a quality player. Maybe he eventually puts it together. Most of the names mentioned don't really seem to be an upgrade. I'm not really a Cedeno fan but he's not a terrible player.

That being said, if they make the decision to go for D at short I wouldn't have a problem with it. A strong defensive SS very well could make the team better even if he's a weaker hitter. Team D might be the easiest way to make quick improvements on this team.

[slider]

I'm guessing the Pirates are scrambling to do something before midnight.  If they acquire a SS, Cedeno gets non-tendered.  Could be a late night.

I agree, it will be a late night in the Pirate front office tonight.

Looking ahead a little bit on the hypothetical side of things.  Assuming the Pirates can land Bartlett or Hardy, would both have the numbers to be type A free agents after the 2011 season?  Would the potential new CBA curb the absurd number of compensation picks, and hamper the Pirates in regards to getting comp picks if they are to let Hard/Bartlett walk.

I'm thinking of this because if there is a strict slotting system in 2012, it would be benefitial to the Pirates to have extra picks since they theoretically couldn't go over slot for draft picks.

Thoughts?

Slider

[gnarburger]

MLBTR had Bartlett in Type A territory this year and Hardy just outside of being a Type B.  The problem with Bartlett is that the 2011 season would replace his huge 2009.  He would have to have a pretty big season to remain a Type A, and something resembling his 2010 could potentially push him out of Type B range.

[SpacePirate]

I'm guessing the Pirates are scrambling to do something before midnight.  If they acquire a SS, Cedeno gets non-tendered.  Could be a late night.

I agree, it will be a late night in the Pirate front office tonight.

Looking ahead a little bit on the hypothetical side of things.  Assuming the Pirates can land Bartlett or Hardy, would both have the numbers to be type A free agents after the 2011 season?  Would the potential new CBA curb the absurd number of compensation picks, and hamper the Pirates in regards to getting comp picks if they are to let Hard/Bartlett walk.

I'm thinking of this because if there is a strict slotting system in 2012, it would be benefitial to the Pirates to have extra picks since they theoretically couldn't go over slot for draft picks.

Thoughts?

Slider

One question I have on that...when referring to "hard slotting", are we talking about only the first round then something higher as a max beyond that?  I'm not sure having that type of system, depending on what the non-first round max is set at, would hurt the Pirates.  If the last slot in the first round (or maybe the supplemental or second round) is something like $1M, then it could be that signing guys in later rounds to what would be considered overslot today isn't completely over with.

[Aaron]

I'm guessing the Pirate tender Cedeno......or possibly they don't.

[epoc]

This puts the Pirates in a good position. I'd be very happy with either Ryan, Bartlett, or Hardy, and the abundance of options should give the Bucs a good chance of getting a good deal on one of them. I've already made my thoughts on Bartlett known, and it seems like we all agree on Hardy. I think Ryan's a huge improvement on Cedeno, too. As I pointed out in the Bartlett thread, Cedeno is a -16 hitter per 600 PA. Ryan is a -18 hitter, so he's only a small downgrade. On defense, Cedeno is below average according to every available metric. Ryan is +10 or better. Overall, Ryan would be a big upgrade - maybe as much as a full win. Plus, he's controllable for three more years.

[Bucs Fan in GA]

My two cents...I like Ryan first and foremost. He has a good glove, can steal a base, smart hitter and has hit for average. Hardy my second choice as he really had some good years at Milwaukee. Not keen on Bartlett.

Beat'em Bucs