MLB Trade Rumors on 2011 Pirate Rotation

[MaineBucs]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/the-pirates-2011-rotation.html

I know many on this Board read the MLB Trade Rumors site but I thought it may still be good to post a link to their write-up on the 2011 Pirates rotation.  I also have quoted the last 2 paragraphs of the write-up below ---

"The Pirates have every reason to look forward to recent additions Taillon, Allie and Heredia, but Allie is the oldest of the three and he's just 19. Owens, Locke and Morris all reached AA Altoona this year and posted excellent overall numbers. They're closer to major league success than, say, Heredia, but it's far too soon to expect them in the major league rotation.

Instead, the Pirates will probably call on Duke, Maholm, Ohlendorf, Karstens, McDonald and others next year. GM Neal Huntington will, in all likelihood, pass on Cliff Lee and other elite pitchers and look into signing a dependable free agent arm. Club president Frank Coonelly is frustrated by the current edition of the Pirates and the team doesn't have many guarantees for next year. If a reliable pitcher like Dave Bush, Jake Westbrook or Kevin Millwood became available at the right price, the Pirates could bolster their rotation depth through free agency." 

Ugghh!   Dave Bush, Jake Westbrook and Kevin Millwood is not exactly what I had in mind when it comes to bolstering the rotation depth. 

[Steve Zielinski]

Right price = $1M

[WTM]

Right price for Dave Bush = he pays us.

[The Great Goemon]

Millwood might be OK. Westbrook could be successful with a good defensive infield behind him, but we don't have that. Dave Bush is just plain lousy, you might as well go with Karstens or Lincoln or Joe Martinez.

[CentralCABucsFan]

I guess I've seen Bush's good games.  He always looks decent when I watch him, but then his end of season numbers aren't so good.  He typically has a good WHIP, so he probably doesn't walk many.  I wonder too if he wouldn't be better pitching half his games in PNC rather than Miller Park.

We are going to have to sign a guy with some warts, because there aren't enough sure thing starters to go around.  The top 10 free agent pitchers will sign long term contracts with winning teams and will not be cheap.

[Born4RF]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/the-pirates-2011-rotation.html

...Owens, Locke and Morris all reached AA Altoona this year and posted excellent overall numbers. They're closer to major league success than, say, Heredia, but it's far too soon to expect them in the major league rotation.

Instead, the Pirates will probably call on Duke, Maholm, Ohlendorf, Karstens, McDonald and others next year. 
...

I disagree on our AA prospects.  I think if the right guy stays healthy one of them will stand out enough in ST to punch his way into the rotation ahead of schedule.  Realistically Owens, Morris or Wilson could have been called up for a half season of AAA, which would have made them contenders for the varsity right now.  I see Maholm OR Duke (whichever's still here in February), Ohlie and McDonald in the rotation, joined by one of the Altoona Fantastic Four  and one of the poop-tastic AAAAers ... probably Karstens.

I would certainly take any of those options ahead of Busch, Millstone or Worstbrook.

I wonder too if he wouldn't be better pitching half his games in PNC rather than Miller Park.

We are going to have to sign a guy with some warts, because there aren't enough sure thing starters to go around. 
...

I'm sorry but we've got enough pitchers with warts to sort out already and whomever we pencil in the rotation will have the great benefit of pitching at PNC 

[WTM]

I guess I've seen Bush's good games.  He always looks decent when I watch him

How many of those were against the Pirates?

[A. Senter]

I guess I've seen Bush's good games.  He always looks decent when I watch him

How many of those were against the Pirates?

All of them.

[Dale Berras Stash]

The Pirates will obtain one of their 2011 starters through a trade this off-season.  I would bet large amounts of U.S. currency on it.

Even this tone-deaf front office has to feel some embarassment about this season.  I legitimately believe that Coonley is upset.

[GoBucs21]

Screw getting the next version of Matt Morris.

I would go with the in house options, even if they do stink.
O-Dorf, assuming he's healthy
McDonald.  Outside of O-Dorf, he's done as much to be the opening day starter as anyone.
Lincoln.  He has to come up and show what he has sometime.
Maholm, only if he can't be off loaded.

Pick one for the fifth starter:
Morton, only because there is no pitching anyway.
Karstens, see the Morton excuse.
McCutchen, see the Karstens excuse.

Morris and Locke will be called up mid-June when at least two of the five starters fail miserably.

[gorillagogo]

Screw getting the next version of Matt Morris.

The point is to aim a little higher. There was a list floating around on here a month or two ago of guys that could be good trade targets this coming offseason, such as Ricky Nolasco, James Shields or Fausto Carmona. None of those guys are world beaters but any one would be an upgrade for the rotation.

EDIT: Here it is. DBS listed some guys that might be available.

http://onlybucs.net/forums/index.php/topic,7418.msg96053.html#msg96053

[Bucs Fan in GA]

I agree Carmona or Nolasco would be a big upgrade /addition to our staff. Wouldn't mind Pavano if the price was right.

Beat'em Bucs

[epoc]

The Pirates will obtain one of their 2011 starters through a trade this off-season.  I would bet large amounts of U.S. currency on it.

Even this tone-deaf front office has to feel some embarassment about this season.  I legitimately believe that Coonley is upset.

Why a trade rather than FA? Or do you think they'll do both?

[Dale Berras Stash]

Screw getting the next version of Matt Morris.

The point is to aim a little higher. There was a list floating around on here a month or two ago of guys that could be good trade targets this coming offseason, such as Ricky Nolasco, James Shields or Fausto Carmona. None of those guys are world beaters but any one would be an upgrade for the rotation.

EDIT: Here it is. DBS listed some guys that might be available.

http://onlybucs.net/forums/index.php/topic,7418.msg96053.html#msg96053

Correct.  Over on my blog, I'm going to look at 4-5 guys who could be trade candidates due to their current teams' payroll predicaments.

I already looked at Shields (TB) and Baker (MIN).

Keep in mind...these are teams that may need to unload salary this offseason.  Also, it is a buyer's market out there.  The return for Oswalt, even after the Astros kicked in a boatload of cash, was JA Happ (Rudy Owens), Anthony Gose (Robbie Grossman), and Jonathan Villar (ummm...d'Arnaud with better defense).  No Dominic Brown, no Travis d'Arnaud, no Trever May.

The return for Dan Haren, a more cost-effective pitcher, was even worse.  Tyler Skaggs (ZVR), Patrick Corbin (Locke), Rafael Rodriguez (Steven Jackson), and Joe Saunders (Zach Duke).  No Mike Trout, no Hank Conger, no Randell Grichuk.

It's a buyer's market.

http://daleberrasstash.blogspot.com/2010/09/offseason-trade-targets-for-pitching-2.html
(Baker)

http://daleberrasstash.blogspot.com/2010/09/offseason-trade-targets-for-pitching-1.html
(Shields)

[Dale Berras Stash]

The Pirates will obtain one of their 2011 starters through a trade this off-season.  I would bet large amounts of U.S. currency on it.
 
Even this tone-deaf front office has to feel some embarassment about this season.  I legitimately believe that Coonley is upset.

Why a trade rather than FA? Or do you think they'll do both?

I don't think FA is an efficient way to allocate resources on pitching.  It may be for hitting, but it is terrible for pitching. 
Often, you're paying for past glories and you have to lock yourself into multiple decline years for a pitcher.

It's very rare that I would advocate for signing a pitcher to many years past his 1st or 2nd natural free agency years.  There is just too much variability with most pitchers.