The Departed (Pirates)

[WTM]

Paulino is doing well now because he's a platoon player, mostly seeing LHPs.  A lot of us thought he'd do much better in that role, but the Pirates have never been much on platooning.

[gnarburger]

I looked at Adam LaRoche's numbers and it seems like he's having the same season as last year.  For some reason he's suddenly turned into a very good April hitter, but he's tanking in May again early on this year.  I also discovered that the worst month of LaRoche's career wasn't any of his Aprils, but July of 2009 when he had a .190 OBP.

[Dmetz]

The way I look at it, right now we're driving a 200k mile pinto at first base.   Adam isn't the total package, in no way is he a brand new Lexus, but he is a legitimate major league first baseman with some pop and a decent glove.  I would call him an answer at 1st if Pedro plays 3rd and Jones stays in RF.  It would be nice to have a legitimate ML first baseman to go along with Tabata, Cutch, Pedro, Jones and Andy if he can transition to 2nd and be successful.   Not having a 1st baseman is kinda a huge offensive hole.  It's a big problem vs having a light hitting, avg defense SS or something.

He signed a 1 year deal if memory serves, so maybe he's a guy we could buy and actually use as a support player as he certainly is?  You know, batting 6th or something rather than being a primary offensive producer?   

If the price is reasonable, which I would think it would be after his salary this season.  (And AZ doesn't want him back).  I think I'd like us to take a serious shot at him.  Or at least somebody legitimate.   If we move Jones back to 1st, we've got a gaping hole in a corner OF spot.  So it's sort of musical chairs in that regard.   

[IABucFan]

I'm be no means willing to give up on Milledge.  What if we had a lineup like this:

1.  Tabata-LF
2.  LaRoche-2B
3.  McCutchen-CF
4.  Jones-1B
5.  Doumit-C
6.  Alvarez-3B
7.  Milledge-RF
8.  Cedeno-SS

I hear what you are saying about LaRoche, but I've seen enough of him to know I've seen enough, if you know what I mean.

[Dmetz]

That's primarily where we differ then.   Milledge's bus has rolled away imo.   He's got next to nothing I'm interested in.  Gave a good effort and no attitude problems at all that I could see. (not that I care about that stuff) He just can't get it done especially in a corner OF spot. 

Doesn't have the skills anymore and isn't getting better.  Assuming he had them at some point.

Also, I wouldn't want to see Alvy naked in the order with a scrub like Milledge following him up.   He'll probably have to adjust quite a bit and might struggle at first, but I'd want him protected in the order from the day he arrives.  Really struggles with Left handed pitching and strikeouts.   We need to give him good looks to get him as comfortable as possible as soon as possible imo.   Putting Milledge behind him he'd see nothing to hit imo.   Pitchers would still be aware of his power and that he changes a game with one swing, even though he might be struggling intially. 

[Babe Adams]

Does anyone think it might be relevant that Andy started hitting after Adam was traded?

[IABucFan]

Does anyone think it might be relevant that Andy started hitting after Adam was traded?

No, not really.  They have probably been playing together since they were little, so I doubt he felt a lot of pressure to "live up" to his brother or anything like that.  I think it's just the normal learning curve for a young player.  Eventually, if you have the talent and you keep working, something just clicks.  I think we're seeing that with Andy L.

[kansasfan]

Actually, I thought the Pirates were the first time they played together, since maybe when they were real little or not at all.  I didn't think they even played HS ball together.  I could be wrong.  The ironic thing was that Wilson & Sanchez played HS ball together I believe, so our infield was made up of two brothers and two HS teammates.  Pretty wild.

[gnarburger]

Actually, I thought the Pirates were the first time they played together, since maybe when they were real little or not at all.  I didn't think they even played HS ball together.  I could be wrong.  The ironic thing was that Wilson & Sanchez played HS ball together I believe, so our infield was made up of two brothers and two HS teammates.  Pretty wild.

That is accurate on the LaRoches.  They were just far enough apart in age (4 full years) that they didn't overlap in high school at all.  Sanchez went to Burbank High School and Wilson went to Thousand Oaks, but they played together in the summer leagues out there.

[The Moose]

Does anyone think it might be relevant that Andy started hitting after Adam was traded?

No, not really.  They have probably been playing together since they were little, so I doubt he felt a lot of pressure to "live up" to his brother or anything like that.  I think it's just the normal learning curve for a young player.  Eventually, if you have the talent and you keep working, something just clicks.  I think we're seeing that with Andy L.

Uhh, Mr Learning Curve is 5 for his last 23 with, no RBIs in his last 7 games, and 2 RBIs this month. So, apparently, he's still got lots of learning to do.

Learning curve my eye. He had a brief hot streak. And while that's great and all, Andy LaRoche is pretty far removed from a .300 hitter. He's not even a .270 hitter, and his current .295 AVG has some more dropping to do, before it levels off.

[Dignan]

Uhh, Mr Learning Curve is 5 for his last 23 with, no RBIs in his last 7 games, and 2 RBIs this month. So, apparently, he's still got lots of learning to do.

Learning curve my eye. He had a brief hot streak. And while that's great and all, Andy LaRoche is pretty far removed from a .300 hitter. He's not even a .270 hitter, and his current .295 AVG has some more dropping to do, before it levels off.

So do you only worry about small sample sizes when they contrast with your expectations?  Currently the entire team is slumping.  I'd say the jury is still out on LaRoche, but he's shown some promising signs since the latter part of last season.

[The Moose]

Uhh, Mr Learning Curve is 5 for his last 23 with, no RBIs in his last 7 games, and 2 RBIs this month. So, apparently, he's still got lots of learning to do.

Learning curve my eye. He had a brief hot streak. And while that's great and all, Andy LaRoche is pretty far removed from a .300 hitter. He's not even a .270 hitter, and his current .295 AVG has some more dropping to do, before it levels off.

So do you only worry about small sample sizes when they contrast with your expectations?  Currently the entire team is slumping.  I'd say the jury is still out on LaRoche, but he's shown some promising signs since the latter part of last season.

In MLB, there are 29 3B men with at least 99 2010 plate appearances. Andy LaRoche's current .756 OPS ranks him 19th.

in 2009, there were 31 3B men in MLB with at least 342 plate appearances. Andy LaRoche's .731 OPS ranked him 20th.

With experience, he is getting a bit better. But Babe Adams' claim was "something just clicked" with Andy. He's on the "learning curve", after all. That's the part I took issue with. A 23 AB hot streak doesn't mean "something just clicked". It means a 23 AB hot streak. And nothing more.

No matter how you slice it, Andy LaRoche is an above average fielding, below average hitting 3B man. And just as his recent error spurt doesn't suddenly make LaRoche a bad fielder, his recent hot streak doesn't make him a good hitter. A good hitter for 3B, at any rate.

I should add, in fairness, that LaRoche's .756 OPS would rank him 11th in MLB among 2B men with at least 99 plate appearances, this year. Which would be, of course, slighly above average. So, there's a lot of merit in people's desires to see LaRoche moved to 2B.

[Babe Adams]

But Babe Adams' claim was "something just clicked" with Andy.

We gotta put glasses on The Moose.

[The Moose]

But Babe Adams' claim was "something just clicked" with Andy.

We gotta put glasses on The Moose.

Oh, I see. Forgive me, it was Iowa who came up with that "leaning curve - something just clicked" post.

[IABucFan]

Yes, I did post that.  I guess this is the way I look at things.  I really try to see the positive in everything.  That's part of the reason for my ongoing posts about why I still root for the Bucs.  I'm disappointed so far, too.  I can't really argue with most of what has been said.  But, I also realize that personally, there's nothing I can do about it.  I understand the frustration and this board is as appropriate of a place to vent it as any, but I'm just not going to let it get me down.  Even when DL was here, I tried to find something positive in what he was doing.  Most of the time, that was extremely dificult. 

I do think that Neal Huntington is doing things the right way.  I for one have never said though, that you can't start to evaluate him right now.  Heck, I'm evaluating him myself in saying that I think he's doing things the right way.  I have no idea if his moves will work out or not, but I will say this...I have more hope in the Pirates future now than I did three years ago.  I have less hope now than I did six weeks ago, but it's a long season.