The Departed (Pirates)

[bobster]

That was a neat article, but it surprises me that Jack openly said that he could more easily walk away from baseball than from soccer.  I suppose just because someone has a gift, and lest any of us forget, every single player in the major leagues is among the best baseball players in the world, doesn't necessarily mean that they have a love of the game.  Don't get me wrong, I think Jack loves baseball, and I really enjoyed watching him when he was here, but sometimes what you do best isn't your first love.

Dick Groat wrote a book after the 1960 season in which he described himself as a basketball player playing baseball. He said he gave up basketball for baseball because it was his father's dream that he play baseball. But his first love was always basketball. He was a two-time all-American at Duke, was elected to the Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, was named the UPI National Men's Basketball Player of the Year at Duke in 1952, was the first Blue Devil to have his number retired, and was the third overall pick in the 1952 NBA draft. And is currently the color analyst for the Pitt basketball team.

But despite Groat's passion for basketball, he played 14 years in MLB with a career batting average of .286, was the NL batting champion in 1960, the NL MVP in 1960, was 2nd in the MVP voting in 1963 with the Cardinals, was 3rd in the NL batting title race in 1963, and was a 5-time All-Star. 

Seems like some guys almost have too much talent. But Groat is a very classy guy. He deserves all the success he has enjoyed.

[Dogknot3]

There always the Personal Conduct clause of contracts, which I believe is how the Rockies got out of Neagle's albatross contract after he was caught with hookers or somesuch.  I'm sure the Wilpons know a few high end ladies of the night.

What happened to Neagle?  I never heard that.

[gnarburger]

Neagle signed a 5 year $51 million deal with the Rockies in 2001.  His first 2 seasons with the team he had an ERA over 5 (though his ERA+ was only 95, being early 2000s Colorado), and the third year he was injured after just 7 starts and missed the rest of the season.  In 2004 he didn't pitch at all.  That offseason he was busted with a $40 prostitute.  Within days the Rockies decided to void the final year of his contract.  He was due $10 million in 2005 and had a ridiculous $9 million buyout on his 2006 option (I don't think I've ever seen a buyout that high).  I think the union had a meeting over it, but in the end their voiding of the deal held up.

[PMike]

That was a neat article, but it surprises me that Jack openly said that he could more easily walk away from baseball than from soccer.  I suppose just because someone has a gift, and lest any of us forget, every single player in the major leagues is among the best baseball players in the world, doesn't necessarily mean that they have a love of the game.  Don't get me wrong, I think Jack loves baseball, and I really enjoyed watching him when he was here, but sometimes what you do best isn't your first love.

Dick Groat wrote a book after the 1960 season in which he described himself as a basketball player playing baseball. He said he gave up basketball for baseball because it was his father's dream that he play baseball. But his first love was always basketball. He was a two-time all-American at Duke, was elected to the Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, was named the UPI National Men's Basketball Player of the Year at Duke in 1952, was the first Blue Devil to have his number retired, and was the third overall pick in the 1952 NBA draft. And is currently the color analyst for the Pitt basketball team.

But despite Groat's passion for basketball, he played 14 years in MLB with a career batting average of .286, was the NL batting champion in 1960, the NL MVP in 1960, was 2nd in the MVP voting in 1963 with the Cardinals, was 3rd in the NL batting title race in 1963, and was a 5-time All-Star. 

Seems like some guys almost have too much talent. But Groat is a very classy guy. He deserves all the success he has enjoyed.

I have actually had the opportunity to talk with Dick Groat a number of times.  I, too, brought up his illustrious basketball career in combination with his baseball career.  He told me that he much preferred basketball.  He told me that after he graduated from Duke, he played some pro basketball and loved it.  He also signed with the Pirates and went straight to the majors (I think).  It was the Pirates that told him he needed to commit to one or the other.  He said as much as he preferred basketball, he thought he could have a longer career and a more stable financial career with baseball.  The major leagues were a much more established league than basketball had at the time.

He said that he liked basketball more because he was better at it.  It was a more individual game and he felt like he could have a more meaningful career playing there.  He liked the way he could take over a game.   

I agree with Bobster, Groat is a classy classy guy.  I got to know him through Pitt.  I played in the pep band for basketball.  We were often in close proximity to the team and broadcasters in the post season tourneys.  Groat was particularly approachable and generous with his time.  He actually took time to talk with me a number of times!  He even remembered me when I popped in at Champion Lakes a couple of years ago!

Fun fact about Dick Groat:  he is credited with patenting the jump shot.

[gnarburger]

That was a neat article, but it surprises me that Jack openly said that he could more easily walk away from baseball than from soccer.  I suppose just because someone has a gift, and lest any of us forget, every single player in the major leagues is among the best baseball players in the world, doesn't necessarily mean that they have a love of the game.  Don't get me wrong, I think Jack loves baseball, and I really enjoyed watching him when he was here, but sometimes what you do best isn't your first love.

Dick Groat wrote a book after the 1960 season in which he described himself as a basketball player playing baseball. He said he gave up basketball for baseball because it was his father's dream that he play baseball. But his first love was always basketball. He was a two-time all-American at Duke, was elected to the Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, was named the UPI National Men's Basketball Player of the Year at Duke in 1952, was the first Blue Devil to have his number retired, and was the third overall pick in the 1952 NBA draft. And is currently the color analyst for the Pitt basketball team.

But despite Groat's passion for basketball, he played 14 years in MLB with a career batting average of .286, was the NL batting champion in 1960, the NL MVP in 1960, was 2nd in the MVP voting in 1963 with the Cardinals, was 3rd in the NL batting title race in 1963, and was a 5-time All-Star. 

Seems like some guys almost have too much talent. But Groat is a very classy guy. He deserves all the success he has enjoyed.

I have actually had the opportunity to talk with Dick Groat a number of times.  I, too, brought up his illustrious basketball career in combination with his baseball career.  He told me that he much preferred basketball.  He told me that after he graduated from Duke, he played some pro basketball and loved it.  He also signed with the Pirates and went straight to the majors (I think).  It was the Pirates that told him he needed to commit to one or the other.  He said as much as he preferred basketball, he thought he could have a longer career and a more stable financial career with baseball.  The major leagues were a much more established league than basketball had at the time.

He said that he liked basketball more because he was better at it.  It was a more individual game and he felt like he could have a more meaningful career playing there.  He liked the way he could take over a game.   

I agree with Bobster, Groat is a classy classy guy.  I got to know him through Pitt.  I played in the pep band for basketball.  We were often in close proximity to the team and broadcasters in the post season tourneys.  Groat was particularly approachable and generous with his time.  He actually took time to talk with me a number of times!  He even remembered me when I popped in at Champion Lakes a couple of years ago!

Fun fact about Dick Groat:  he is credited with patenting the jump shot.

From 1947-1965 they had the "Bonus Baby" rule in effect.  When a player received a bonus above a certain amount (not sure of the exact figure), he would have to spend the first two years of his career in the majors.  Groat, like many two sport stars, was one of them.  Joe Posnanski had a pretty good article on Branch Rickey's term with the Pirates, during which he made heavy use of the Rule 5 and the Bonus Baby system, but I can't find it since he switched his blog over to a new feed.  There were years when the team was just loaded with guys with little to no professional experience as a result of Rickey's risk taking.  Dick Groat was probably his biggest Bonus Baby pick up, while Clemente was the star of his Rule 5 group.

[wvbucco]

I think I recall someone saying it was around $5000.

[bradlej31]

I just realized that Bay hits 6 HRs in 400 AB this year.   I thought it was like 12.  6!

Then I looked up his contract:

-  10:$6.5M, 11:$16M, 12:$16M, 13:$16M, 14:$17M club option ($3M buyout)
-  2014 option guaranteed with 600 PAs in 2013 or 500 PAs in both 2012, 2013
-  full no-trade clause

With the 500 PA's in 2012/13 clause, that 2014 option could vest.

With how terrible he is on D and playing for an NL team, 32 years old... this could be the worst current contract.

[gorillagogo]

I just realized that Bay hits 6 HRs in 400 AB this year.   I thought it was like 12.  6!

Then I looked up his contract:

-  10:$6.5M, 11:$16M, 12:$16M, 13:$16M, 14:$17M club option ($3M buyout)
-  2014 option guaranteed with 600 PAs in 2013 or 500 PAs in both 2012, 2013
-  full no-trade clause

With the 500 PA's in 2012/13 clause, that 2014 option could vest.

With how terrible he is on D and playing for an NL team, 32 years old... this could be the worst current contract.

I don't think any current deal could be worse than the $174M left on A-Rod's contract.

[MaineBucs]

I see where the Mariners officially cut Ian Snell loose and that he is now a minor league free agent.

Several years ago I thought Snell had a chance to be the best among the grouping of Pirate starters that he was competing with.  Pitching sure can be unpredictable.

[Dogknot3]

I just realized that Bay hits 6 HRs in 400 AB this year.   I thought it was like 12.  6!

Then I looked up his contract:

-  10:$6.5M, 11:$16M, 12:$16M, 13:$16M, 14:$17M club option ($3M buyout)
-  2014 option guaranteed with 600 PAs in 2013 or 500 PAs in both 2012, 2013
-  full no-trade clause

With the 500 PA's in 2012/13 clause, that 2014 option could vest.

With how terrible he is on D and playing for an NL team, 32 years old... this could be the worst current contract.

I don't think any current deal could be worse than the $174M left on A-Rod's contract.

I would take A-Rod and his contract in a heartbeat.  His contract was just at its highest and is on the way down.  I don't think A-Rod is losing much at all.  I would put him at SS and solve that position for years to come.

[dave3BA]

I would take A-Rod and his contract in a heartbeat.  His contract was just at its highest and is on the way down.  I don't think A-Rod is losing much at all.  I would put him at SS and solve that position for years to come.

Have you watched Rodriguez lately?  He is barely adequate at third now, has a deteriorating hip injury and hasn't played a full season in 3 years.  on top of that, he's going to be 36.  $174M is a horrible gamble at this point.

[Dogknot3]

I have seen him play lately and I still think he is one of the best in the game.  He will probably go down as the best player ever too.

I also think he would be a great PR move too.  Every home run is pretty much history as he is one his way to break the all time HR Record. 

I know he is owed a lot of money, but he is still putting up 30 HRs and 100 RBIs.

[81omar]

I have seen him play lately and I still think he is one of the best in the game.  He will probably go down as the best player ever too.

I also think he would be a great PR move too.  Every home run is pretty much history as he is one his way to break the all time HR Record. 

I know he is owed a lot of money, but he is still putting up 30 HRs and 100 RBIs.

   Did you hear he admitted to steroids Dog?  Don't think he has much chance at being known as the best player ever,maybe best one with an asterisks after his name.

   He also can't play SS anymore

   Do you know,if he gets there,his 762nd and 763rd home run will cost the team that he is on, $12,000,000....good PR or not,those are some expensive home runs! 

[wvbucco]

I would take A-Rod and his contract in a heartbeat.  His contract was just at its highest and is on the way down.  I don't think A-Rod is losing much at all.  I would put him at SS and solve that position for years to come.

Have you watched Rodriguez lately?  He is barely adequate at third now, has a deteriorating hip injury and hasn't played a full season in 3 years.  on top of that, he's going to be 36.  $174M is a horrible gamble at this point.

He played 138, 124, and 137 games the last three years, so he really didn't miss that much time.  His contract, though, is totally insane- only the Yankees could afford such a monstrosity.  He is signed through age 42, and making $20M at age 42- and the $174M owed him does not include $30M in bonuses for reaching various career home run thresholds. 

[gorillagogo]

I have seen him play lately and I still think he is one of the best in the game.  He will probably go down as the best player ever too.

I also think he would be a great PR move too.  Every home run is pretty much history as he is one his way to break the all time HR Record. 

I know he is owed a lot of money, but he is still putting up 30 HRs and 100 RBIs.

   Did you hear he admitted to steroids Dog?  Don't think he has much chance at being known as the best player ever,maybe best one with an asterisks after his name.

   He also can't play SS anymore

   Do you know,if he gets there,his 762nd and 763rd home run will cost the team that he is on, $12,000,000....good PR or not,those are some expensive home runs! 

He also gets a bonus for a few other milestone HRs. I believe it's for $6M each for 660, 700 and 714 as well.