Why a 35 mil payroll?

[Dale Berras Stash]

If additional money is spent on scouting, drafting and development?  Absolutely.

Now the whole Aramis Ramirez thing is another story.  If they trade a productive McCutchen in a few years to avoid paying HIM, then I have a problem.  That we didn't spend $20,000,000 on Barry Bonds and Jamie Moyer this year doesn't bother me.

I'm pretty sure the buccos have enough money to keep their payroll the same and add a few mil to the draft.  This year alone they have cut 15 from the payroll and will not increase the draft money by much if any.

So where is it?

And I totally disagree that you need to cut payroll to rebuild.  Sure you don't want to block anyone with a cruddy free agent. But how about the pitching staff.  There is not one person here who can say with a straight face that they expect this current crew to lead us to the "championships".

You also have to line up a potential FA who will also be of the correct age for when the Pirates will contend.
I've always said that 2011 is when we will potentially break the losing streak and maybe 2012 is when they will contend on the periphery for a WC.

You can't go out this past off-season and sign a 30+ y.o. in the hopes that in 2012 he will still be the "ace" that you need.

All of the under 30 year old options this past offseason were damaged goods (Harden, Sheets, etc.) that I wouldn't want to multi-year.

It is very rare that a 27 year old ace gets to the FA market....that's why you need to develop internally.

I completely agree that a rotation of 3 #3's and 2 #5's (at best) is not going to get it done.  But the 2009 offseason was not the time to get an ace.  The Pirates needed to see about Morton, still see Lincoln, and sift thru McCutchen this year.

[SammyKhalifa]

But Matt Morris!

[Xiga]

Duh, because the Nuttings are cheap!

[markson33]

I'd be all for the Pirates signing Cliff Lee this offseason.  I don't think he will command as much money as some of the other guys out there (still a lot of money).  He seemed to enjoy his time in Cleveland and probably knows NH from their time there.

[Dogknot3]

[quote author=7Springs link=topic=6508.msg75610#msg75610
I'm pretty sure the buccos have enough money to keep their payroll the same and add a few mil to the draft.  This year alone they have cut 15 from the payroll and will not increase the draft money by much if any.

So where is it?

And I totally disagree that you need to cut payroll to rebuild.  Sure you don't want to block anyone with a cruddy free agent. But how about the pitching staff.  There is not one person here who can say with a straight face that they expect this current crew to lead us to the "championships".
[/quote]

The Pirates have young players at every position.  The players are also unproven.  Why would you pay an unproven player millions of dollars?  How does that make any sense at all?

Would you seriously be happier if LaRoche, Cedeno, Clement, and Jones all made $5 million - $7 million a year?

The Pirates are rebuilding.  When you rebuild, you have a team full of young players that make pretty much the minimum salary.  The only posiiton where the Pirates have a true veteran is at 2B and he is gettign paid like one.  

The rotation is full of young players too.  I do think they have a chance to stick together and and be good as a young group.  Plus, the Pirates have some minor leaguers who will be called up too.

The Pirates also spent some money on the Bullpen.  They didn't overspend like a lot of other teams, but money was spent for the veterans who were brought in.

What did you want the Pirates to do this off season?  Did you really want them not to rebuild and do what they have been doing since Bonifay's last year as the GM?  This is the best plan since that time.

[gamecckfn]

So, some people think a $35 million payroll is appropriate?

Do you think a team cannot win more than they lose at that level?

[markson33]

Is a $50 million payroll appropriate if the results are going to be the same and you diverge from your plan?

How about $70 million and the same result?  Is it appropriate to be like the Astros and have a $104mm payroll and be in last place?

[The Moose]

So, some people think a $35 million payroll is appropriate?

Do you think a team cannot win more than they lose at that level?

No, GCF. The Pirates have been lucky, to this point, to be 5-5. They're not good defensively, they have some big holes in their line-up, the right-handed SP hasn't been good at all, and the bullpen has been spotty - good here, not so much there.

They've played some very sloppy baseball, and that's going to catch up to them, sooner or later. They need to get some things tightened up, and quick, if they're going to continue to hover close to .500.

[WTM]

So, some people think a $35 million payroll is appropriate?

Do you think a team cannot win more than they lose at that level?

No, GCF. The Pirates have been lucky, to this point, to be 5-5. They're not good defensively, they have some big holes in their line-up, the right-handed SP hasn't been good at all, and the bullpen has been spotty - good here, not so much there.

They've played some very sloppy baseball, and that's going to catch up to them, sooner or later. They need to get some things tightened up, and quick, if they're going to continue to hover close to .500.

I wouldn't get too caught up in short term performances.  The starters outside of Cedeno aren't going to hit .236.  The rotation outside of Duke isn't going to have an ERA of 8.54 and average below 5 IP per start.  (I'm not counting Burres.)  These short term numbers are just as as much an anomaly as their .500 record with the awful run differential.

[GoBucs21]

Now seems like a good time to ask I guess. Why as a fan who pays to see a product, all be it cruddy for many years, should I accept a payroll drop of 15 mil this year from last?  Can't we 'rebuild" and still have a decent payroll?  Where is all the money going? What do the Pirates bring in in revenue? Do the Nuttings pocket money like many other fans believe?

Oh, I heard I may be banned from here for this post but I wanted to get some honest answers.

Thanks,

7springs

I think that answer is easy.  If you know you can't compete with or without free agents, you don't buy players just to provide mediocrity.  When rebuilding, you want to see how many of your young players can play, now and in the future. 

I take a different position on this than most.  I think $35M was too high.  The Pirates payroll should have been $30M, maybe even $25M.

[Piratesprospects]

Personally, I won't go back to PNC until they put the actual money out on the field.  Nobody seems to be able to explain how adding to payroll right now will help the team add better players, so I want to see a minimum of $80M actually on the field, in stacks of twenties.  With little eyes and glasses on them, like the GEICO money.  As a fan, I have a right to watch a decent payroll play baseball.

And your 2011 Opening Day Starter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1HkYT1Bk

[WTM]

Personally, I won't go back to PNC until they put the actual money out on the field.  Nobody seems to be able to explain how adding to payroll right now will help the team add better players, so I want to see a minimum of $80M actually on the field, in stacks of twenties.  With little eyes and glasses on them, like the GEICO money.  As a fan, I have a right to watch a decent payroll play baseball.

And your 2011 Opening Day Starter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1HkYT1Bk

That's a stack of fives!  Nutting is cheap!!

[gamecckfn]

So, some people think a $35 million payroll is appropriate?

Do you think a team cannot win more than they lose at that level?

No, GCF. The Pirates have been lucky, to this point, to be 5-5. They're not good defensively, they have some big holes in their line-up, the right-handed SP hasn't been good at all, and the bullpen has been spotty - good here, not so much there.

They've played some very sloppy baseball, and that's going to catch up to them, sooner or later. They need to get some things tightened up, and quick, if they're going to continue to hover close to .500.

How did that answer my question? 

[wvbucco]

He thinks he a politician!   

[gamecckfn]

That makes sense.