Why a 35 mil payroll?

[7Springs]

Now seems like a good time to ask I guess. Why as a fan who pays to see a product, all be it cruddy for many years, should I accept a payroll drop of 15 mil this year from last?  Can't we 'rebuild" and still have a decent payroll?  Where is all the money going? What do the Pirates bring in in revenue? Do the Nuttings pocket money like many other fans believe?

Oh, I heard I may be banned from here for this post but I wanted to get some honest answers.

Thanks,

7springs

[MaineBucs]

I understand that Nutting has had all of his pants altered just so he could have deeper pockets.

[aso513]

Stop beating this already dead horse. These questions have been addressed elsewhere google search it.

[KTP]

I don't understand this paranoia with having a small payroll.  Small payrolls come with young rebuilding teams.  Would you rather have a team with Kenny Lofton and Mondesi and any number of overpriced has beens that loss 90+ games but have a 60 million dollar payroll would that make you feel better?  Look I don't know if this will work but I know that what we have done for 17 years doesn't.  I know that for the first time since I sat in my apartment in college and was physically ill watching Sid Bream beat a Bonds throw to the plate that I actually think there is a plan in place to fix it.  Part of that is seeing if Clement can play first and watching Morton blow up after 3 innings.  This is a work in progress and all I am hoping for is that I can look at this team in July August and Sept. and say they have improved.  And guess what, I hate to break it to you but if you put Pedro, Lincoln and Tabata in the line-up guess what it may even be lower next year.  But maybe, just maybe it will begin to get better it is the only chance we have left.

[Dale Berras Stash]

I took a look at payroll committments in both The Pedro pre-arb and arb years a little bit ago....

http://onlybucs.net/forums/index.php/topic,6202.0.html

and

http://onlybucs.net/forums/index.php/topic,6207.0.html

The crux is that for our key players (Cutch-22, Pedro, Lincoln, et al) they are cheap as they are either pre-arb or arb players.  I did contend that money should be spent here and there, especially in pitching.  But what is a "normal" payroll to the fan may not occur for 4-5 years, as a result of the low-cost players.

If you look at most teams on Cots Baseball Contracts, there are at least 2-4 really bad contracts per team that bloat payrolls.  The Pirates don't have that.  Heck, the Tigers have $51M coming off the books this year and no one will miss a single one of them.

[frieshoo]

Now seems like a good time to ask I guess. Why as a fan who pays to see a product, all be it cruddy for many years, should I accept a payroll drop of 15 mil this year from last?  Can't we 'rebuild" and still have a decent payroll?  Where is all the money going? What do the Pirates bring in in revenue? Do the Nuttings pocket money like many other fans believe?

Oh, I heard I may be banned from here for this post but I wanted to get some honest answers.

Thanks,

7springs

It has been pointed out a million times.  The Nuttings are not the sole owner of the ball club.  It's a partnership and no one partner can 'pocket money' without the approval of the partnership.   When it happens, it is called selling shares to other partners.   Every share you sell the less you own of the team.

[markson33]

I think it has been established that a higher payroll does not necessarily equate to a higher level of play.

Take for example the Astros, who have an approximately $103mm payroll this year.  Or Seattle, which has a $112mm payroll this year.  Neither team is significantly better than the Pirates.

The other question that has to be asked is where would you spend the money, and who would you spend it on?  What is the point of spending another $20mm if it doesn't buy you enough to be competitive?

I would have liked to get a top of the rotation starter, but look at this offseason - the best free agent starter was John Lackey and his contract was $16mm per year.  Why would he sign with the Pirates as opposed to the Angels?  His contract alone would have taken our payroll to $51mm and we would still not have a competitive team.

The only way for the Pirates to be competitive is to build from within and lock up our existing players during their abritration years.

[81omar]

Now seems like a good time to ask I guess. Why as a fan who pays to see a product, all be it cruddy for many years, should I accept a payroll drop of 15 mil this year from last?  Can't we 'rebuild" and still have a decent payroll?  Where is all the money going? What do the Pirates bring in in revenue? Do the Nuttings pocket money like many other fans believe?

Oh, I heard I may be banned from here for this post but I wanted to get some honest answers.

Thanks,

7springs

You wont be banned for asking questions as long as you dont say anything that would obviously get you banned IE language. I dont know how you heard ahead of time you would be banned for something you havent posted yet but whoever told you that wasnt a moderator here and I(we) would be the best ones to ask ahead of time

[WTM]

Personally, I won't go back to PNC until they put the actual money out on the field.  Nobody seems to be able to explain how adding to payroll right now will help the team add better players, so I want to see a minimum of $80M actually on the field, in stacks of twenties.  With little eyes and glasses on them, like the GEICO money.  As a fan, I have a right to watch a decent payroll play baseball.

[wvbucco]

You wont be banned for asking questions as long as you dont say anything that would obviously get you banned IE language. I dont know how you heard ahead of time you would be banned for something you havent posted yet but whoever told you that wasnt a moderator here and I(we) would be the best ones to ask ahead of time

My guess is that he has visited that forum where that group of guys we banned from the previous incarnation of our board hang out.  I can't remember the name of the place off the top of my head, but even if he does come from there he is welcome here as long as he behaves himself.  I really hope that he doesn't come here with a bias or with an agenda or with an intent to cause trouble.  

[Woobie]

[timozbuck]

So, some people think a $35 million payroll is appropriate?

[NJBucsFan]

If additional money is spent on scouting, drafting and development?  Absolutely.

Now the whole Aramis Ramirez thing is another story.  If they trade a productive McCutchen in a few years to avoid paying HIM, then I have a problem.  That we didn't spend $20,000,000 on Barry Bonds and Jamie Moyer this year doesn't bother me.

[5-ish Finkle]

With little eyes and glasses on them, like the GEICO money.  As a fan, I have a right to watch a decent payroll play baseball.

"I always feel like, somebody's waaaatchin' meeeeeeeeeeee......"

[7Springs]

If additional money is spent on scouting, drafting and development?  Absolutely.

Now the whole Aramis Ramirez thing is another story.  If they trade a productive McCutchen in a few years to avoid paying HIM, then I have a problem.  That we didn't spend $20,000,000 on Barry Bonds and Jamie Moyer this year doesn't bother me.

I'm pretty sure the buccos have enough money to keep their payroll the same and add a few mil to the draft.  This year alone they have cut 15 from the payroll and will not increase the draft money by much if any.

So where is it?

And I totally disagree that you need to cut payroll to rebuild.  Sure you don't want to block anyone with a cruddy free agent. But how about the pitching staff.  There is not one person here who can say with a straight face that they expect this current crew to lead us to the "championships".