If the Pirates are at .500 come July

[onepghkid]

Another thing I keep reading about is how the Pirates hope to improve this season and that if players improve their trade value will go up.  The second part of that is obvious because if for example Bay shows last year was an anomaly he could bring back a nice return.

My question is that if the Pirates are hovering around .500 at the break would you try to add a couple pieces to break the streak even though it would be detrimental to the future or would you still trade away the players whose improved play has get the team to .500?

I think I would still trade away.  Mostly because even if the team hits the .500 mark they still will not be championship caliber.  At the same time, if the team is playing better a lot of that will be because of starting pitching.  So, well I would trade away players like Bay, Nady, Wilson, and Sanchez I would also try to lock up players like Snell and Gorzo long term. 

[Jimbo21]

... I will be surprised.

This is how low that our beloved Pirates have fallen, we hope against hope that they can get to .500 by mid season so that we can decide who to ship away.

Maybe I should post in green, to remind you all of just how jaded I have become regarding this franchise.

[jwill55sk]

Unless Mike Holmgren retracts his promise to coach Seattle for one more season and instead jumps ship to the Pirates, this team wont sniff anything close to .500 at any point in 2008 season. 

Strangely enough, when you have a team that wins 68 games and don't make any changes, you end up with a crappy team.  Weird.

[Novelist]

The premise, while making me smile at the fleeting thought, is as unlikely as my dating a super model.

This team won 68 games and has not improved one bit. They may have slipped a little bit, in fact. This is a dismal team full of players with too little talent. That being said, they're still my team and I'll root for them. I love baseball; it is one of my few remaining passions. That doesn't mean that I swallow the kool-aid anymore, though.

This year is about suffering while we see if the ship can be righted with this ownership. I tend to doubt it, but this year will prove it one way or the other. Talent must be aquired. Talent must be challenged and nurtured. Talent must be identified. None of these things happened in the past five years in any volume close enough to keep them from being the laughingstock that they are.

They cannot win; they will not win; they are our boys of summer.

*sigh*

[JuniorOrtiz]

No chance....but admire your optimism.

[soggybottoms]

The difference between this GM and the last:

If we were actually .500 (wishful thinking):
I think this GM will get as much return as possible on Bay, Nady, Sanchez, or possilby LaRoche (if Pearce is tearing up AAA)

But with Littlefield, he would sign washed-up players like Burnitz, Randa, Sanders, or Lofton and deny playing time to prospects that need to play (Sanchez, Snell, etc) like he has in the past, or trade for a vet (Morris) that he believes will help this year even though he won't.

I'm all for the blow it up strategy.  We're not that close to a championship. 

[onepghkid]

If my original post suggested optimism, I apologize.  Optimism went away along time ago.  I was simply stating how you will read tidbits about the team improving from last year (I don't know maybe they hired a new pharmacist, I mean trainer).    My real question was that for them to be .500 a lot of improvement would be needed and the players whose names circulated around this winter would be having really good years thus increasing their market value. 

So, if the aforementioned players where to improve to that level would you keep them and try to finish above .500 or would you trade them with an eye to competing in the future?

I am on the trading camp and have wanted to gut the roster for probably three years now.  As this organization consists now my prediction of not seeing a winner until my daughter graduates that I made four years ago will come true.  She is in kindergarten now and there still is no improvement. 

[Dogknot3]

I think the Pirates, well Bob Nutting, wants to end the streak, but what about Coonelly and Huntington?  Those two don't want to lose either, but do they want to hurt their chances or prolong the change that is needed?

I think the Pirates need to rebuild and need to stock their minor leagues for the long haul. 

I think people know that Bay, Paulino, Bautista, and LaRoche didn't perform up to par.  If these four improve and the young players improve, shouldn't the team be better?

[Novelist]

I think people know that Bay, Paulino, Bautista, and LaRoche didn't perform up to par.  If these four improve and the young players improve, shouldn't the team be better?
 

I think Bay should bounce back. He's a proven commodity who had a down year due to injury and perhaps a bit of a mental slump. This team does that to people. The new management may help there. On the other hand, he could be slowing down with hand speed and eye-hand coordination. That would spark the beginning of the end for him. Where's Wilbur, he'd be all over this stuff?

Paulino - He was fat, lazy and complacent last year. That's a bad combination. I don't expect much of him this year, to be frank. With him it's attitude, preperation and effort. Even then, he's big and slow and doesn't have a lot of power. Slap hitting catchers who are big don't last long in this game.

Bautista - He is what he is. An (almost?) average big leaguer who can play everyday on a bad team but would be a sub on a good team.

LaRoche - Such a disappointment when it mattered. A good start by him might have made a huge difference in last year's team. He is the only one I have upside hope for.

Now the other half of that question. What about guys who had great years who might regress and make things worse?  Snell, Tom G? Neither of them has a long track record of success and had great years. Pearce also comes to mind. There are probably more down side worries than rebound hopes on this team.

- Novelist

[Dogknot3]

I am just saying why I think that people think the team will be better. 

In general, people think younger players will always get better and improve on prior seasons.  When players have down years, which isn't their norm, people think they will bounce back.

[Richard A. Mathews]

In Snell and Gorzo, Pirates could very well have two of the better young starting pitchers if not in all of NL in at least the NL Central

In Morris and Maholm the Pirates can argue they have two of the better 4,5 pitchers in at least the NL Central if not the NL

Duke is the "wild card" and if what I've heard is correct, Duke has his motion on the baseball back and is ready to prove his rookie season wasn't a fluke.

Yes, middle relief is marginal. But that part of the team would not nor should it be as big a liability in 2008 if the starting staff can eat the innings it should

I like Capps future and have always been a Marte fan.

This 2008 Pirates pitching staff - without injury - could as a group have a very, very successful season.

If I'm the GM, I play out what the team has in current talent as follows

1) McLouth/Bautista, cf
2) Sanchez, 2b
3) Bay, lf
4) LaRoche/Pierce, 1b
5) Nady, 3b
6) Doumit/Pierce, rf
7) Paulino/Doumit, c
Wilson, ss

While not an intimidating group individually, that group with "3" platoons, going on doesn't have a major hole in it I can see.

There is no reason given 450 abs to Bay, LaRoche, Nady and Doumit that middle of the lineup group shouldn't be able to hit close to 100 dingers all by themselves.

Realistically, there is no reason without injury this team especially in the NLCentral if Duke returns to form and Russel gets a "fire" lit under Ronnie's butt, can't play .500 baseball.

Team is very, very thin if injuries hit key position players or either of top 2 starting pitchers but talent in MLB is at an All Time low if you look at nothing more analytical than bottom half of any player stats by position or to really like your Bucs chances, look at era's of starting pitchers in NL with over 150 innings from 2007.

I promise that list will encourage an Pirate Fan on a cold day in January.

Back to original post, if I'm GM and Bucs are at .500 in July.

First I see where I am in division race.

Then I see where I am in wild card hunt.

And if I think there is a chance to give Pittsburgh fans the thrill of a playoff chase, I beg the Nuttings for the authority to bring in whatever it would take to enhance that chacne without mortgaging the future.

Put the Bucs in a legit hunt for the playoffs from July through whenever and the Nuttings will draw sellouts all weekend and in the high twenty thousand range during the week at least until school starts.

Love the question.

Thanks

Yes Wild 

[Possum]

One question Richard.  Has Bautista fallen out of favor with you? Or is that we need to expose Nady hoping that he will stay health and put up real good numbers by July 30 so we can trade him?

I agree that Bautista has been somewhat of a disappointment to me but I just wonder if Nady at 3b will be more of a drain defensively than his bat going great guns will add.  But I guess this team needs to focus on scoring runs and let the D take care of itself. 

[Dogknot3]

I like the move of Nady to 3B, but is it true? 

I like this move because I think there is more upside in Pearce and Doumit compared to Bautista.  I was disappointed in Bautista last year, but think he can be a good bench player.

[CAfan]

Nady will not be moving to 3B, he hasn't worked at 3B in years.
There is always this speculation that he will move there, but it just isn't going to happen.

Bautista will be our 3B next year, and Walker the year following.
Nady should be moved now to allow RF for Pearce/Doumit.

In 2009 we might have a chance to be something:

CF- McCutchen
2B- Sanchez
RF- Pearce
1B- LaRoche
LF- Bay
3B- Walker
C- Paulino (or replacement)
SS- Wilson

Bench- McLouth, Doumit, Bautista, Bixler, ??

SP- Gorzy, Snell, Duke, Maholm, ? (lincoln?)

RP- Capps, Davidson, Sanchez, Moskos, ??