Here's a reason Aki was better to sign than Kelly Johnson

[gorillagogo]

Keep in mind, Aki was a star 3rd baseman in Japan, so his advice may be quite relevant.

I keep forgetting that fact. If it wasn't for some guy named Evan Longoria, he'd probably still be a 3rd baseman.

[scrapiron]

I really don't understand you people that are complaining.  First Jacen, you went way off topic.  You never came close to addressing the original post.  That led all the others down the wrong path here.  All of you complaining that Aki is making way to much money are the same ones that over and over complain that Nutting is cheap and won't spend cash.  You worry too much that Aki may only be here for one year.  The plain simple fact is that the bucs had a huge hole at second.  No one in free agency could address that hole as well as Aki does.  Chavez was no loss.  Look at all the guys that are now fighting for spots in the bullpen. Chavez would have probably been left out anyway.  In Aki we have a guy that will help the ballclub this year and maybe longer unless someone else rises to the occacion.  Young was never the answer.  LaRoche would be an experiment and many still doubt his bat.  Walker is apparently destined for a utility role.  There is no young player being kept down because Iwamura was brought in so please drop that silly argument.  

As far as 'veteranosity' goes, this is not some magical spell that can be cast over the team to make them win.  But how many times have you read about a young player coming up and talking about how a vet took him under his wing and showed him how to go about his business in a ML way?  I have read that hundreds of times over the years.  If veteranosity has no place, why do they bring in guys like Maz and Sangy for spring training?  They are not the coaches that the players will see all year long, but they are guys that have been there and done that at the highest level of performance.  You listen to them. With Aki, he is similar to Maz except he is a contemporary.  Any young player would do well to listen to any tips he has to give, especially when he initiates the exchange.  That is what veteranosity brings to a club, not some mystical winning streak, but professionalism.  

[Dignan]

I doubt that Alvarez was backed down to some pile of jelly.  I mean, the guy is a top prospect in baseball.  He is a huge guy physically (especially compared to Iwamura).  And he is in his early-mid twenties.  He isn't some diminutive 6th graders.  I am pretty sure he can stand there and hear the words of a quality veteran without being intimidated.  He's a big boy.

And if he can't hear things like that, what does it say for his future a big time player (in Pittsburgh no less).

Mike

I'm not saying it was a confrontation, far from it.  Alvarez seems like a well-mannered guy, I'm sure he wouldn't tell the guy to buzz off and stop bothering him.  I have no idea what advice he was giving him, just was thinking of an amusing scenario of what could be going through his mind.

I do think that veteranosity is highly overrated.  It's not worthless, but it's much more important that someone be a good baseball player than the relatively old guy who can tell the young whipper snappers how things were done when they had to walk to first base through three feet of snow and no cleats, uphill both ways.

[RJReynolds]

I really don't understand you people that are complaining.  First Jacen, you went way off topic.  You never came close to addressing the original post.  That led all the others down the wrong path here.  All of you complaining that Aki is making way to much money are the same ones that over and over complain that Nutting is cheap and won't spend cash.  You worry too much that Aki may only be here for one year.  The plain simple fact is that the bucs had a huge hole at second.  No one in free agency could address that hole as well as Aki does.  Chavez was no loss.  Look at all the guys that are now fighting for spots in the bullpen. Chavez would have probably been left out anyway.  In Aki we have a guy that will help the ballclub this year and maybe longer unless someone else rises to the occacion.  Young was never the answer.  LaRoche would be an experiment and many still doubt his bat.  Walker is apparently destined for a utility role.  There is no young player being kept down because Iwamura was brought in so please drop that silly argument.  

As far as 'veteranosity' goes, this is not some magical spell that can be cast over the team to make them win.  But how many times have you read about a young player coming up and talking about how a vet took him under his wing and showed him how to go about his business in a ML way?  I have read that hundreds of times over the years.  If veteranosity has no place, why do they bring in guys like Maz and Sangy for spring training?  They are not the coaches that the players will see all year long, but they are guys that have been there and done that at the highest level of performance.  You listen to them. With Aki, he is similar to Maz except he is a contemporary.  Any young player would do well to listen to any tips he has to give, especially when he initiates the exchange.  That is what veteranosity brings to a club, not some mystical winning streak, but professionalism.  

The money certainly matters when it is such a finite number. And in no way shape or form should this team be spending that kind of money on a one year rental when it could be better spent to improve the team for the future. 2010 is going to be a disaster in terms of wins and loss with or without Iwamura. So why not give a player who could be around for a few years a chance....even if it hurts the team in 2010...and instead spend the money elsewhere? So to be clear, I'm not complaining about money spent. Simply how it is spent.

And I'm pretty sure the veteran leadership Iwamura will not only not provide magical wins in 2010, but it will also not be worth $5 mil on a 90+ loss team.

RJR

[gorillagogo]

The money certainly matters when it is such a finite number. And in no way shape or form should this team be spending that kind of money on a one year rental when it could be better spent to improve the team for the future. 2010 is going to be a disaster in terms of wins and loss with or without Iwamura. So why not give a player who could be around for a few years a chance....even if it hurts the team in 2010...and instead spend the money elsewhere? So to be clear, I'm not complaining about money spent. Simply how it is spent.

And I'm pretty sure the veteran leadership Iwamura will not only not provide magical wins in 2010, but it will also not be worth $5 mil on a 90+ loss team.

RJR

I think you raise a fair point here, even though I don't agree. Personally, I think $5M for Iwamura is actually below market value, at least in terms of WAR.

EDIT: To clarify, depending on your source Iwamura's projected to be somewhere between a 2.2 and 2.7 WAR player this year. Free agent contracts have paid out roughly $3M per WAR this offseason, so $5M for Iwamura is below that threshold.

[Thunder]

Keep in mind, Aki was a star 3rd baseman in Japan, so his advice may be quite relevant.

Not only a 3 time all star...but the Japanese equivalent of the Gold Glove at 3B...in SIX seasons. I'd say he knows a little bit about playing 3B...and hopefully Pedro isn't the only one he's imparting his knowledge to. Last time I checked...the Pirates coaching staff isn't exactly loaded with guys that have played 3B more than a couple of games. Garcia was a 2B.

And exactly who is Akinori blocking?? A split squad day is a perfect opportunity to get one of the guys (Walker, LaRoche, etc) a little experience at 2B...and who is starting the other game at 2B today?? Why, it's Ramon Vazquez, of course. Iwamura isn't blocking anyone.

[RJReynolds]

The money certainly matters when it is such a finite number. And in no way shape or form should this team be spending that kind of money on a one year rental when it could be better spent to improve the team for the future. 2010 is going to be a disaster in terms of wins and loss with or without Iwamura. So why not give a player who could be around for a few years a chance....even if it hurts the team in 2010...and instead spend the money elsewhere? So to be clear, I'm not complaining about money spent. Simply how it is spent.

And I'm pretty sure the veteran leadership Iwamura will not only not provide magical wins in 2010, but it will also not be worth $5 mil on a 90+ loss team.

RJR

I think you raise a fair point here, even though I don't agree. Personally, I think $5M for Iwamura is actually below market value, at least in terms of WAR.

This is true, and if he can play at a Freddy Sanchez type of level I hope that he can be flipped at the trade deadline for something of future value. To me, that really is his true value to the organization. What kind of player will he net in 2010 in trade. I'm guessing there isn't any chance of his being a type A free agent this offseason is there? Still, either way I'm not sure it will be worth paying $5 mil (or 2/3 of a season prorated at that amount) for the chance of getting an Alderson type or a #42 player in the draft type. I'd rather spend the money on the draft now, get a better player for the money spent, and have a year of evaluation for someone who could potentially be here long term.

RJR

[CAfan]

I can't resist the suggestion to play Neil at 2B.  Exactly what has Neil done to warrant any starting position, let alone starting at a position he does not play.

[gamecckfn]

This is true, and if he can play at a Freddy Sanchez type of level I hope that he can be flipped at the trade deadline for something of future value. To me, that really is his true value to the organization. What kind of player will he net in 2010 in trade. I'm guessing there isn't any chance of his being a type A free agent this offseason is there? Still, either way I'm not sure it will be worth paying $5 mil (or 2/3 of a season prorated at that amount) for the chance of getting an Alderson type or a #42 player in the draft type. I'd rather spend the money on the draft now, get a better player for the money spent, and have a year of evaluation for someone who could potentially be here long term.

RJR

They should still be able to spend plenty on the draft.  I do not see how they have an excuse for not spending any money in the draft with Iwamura here.  I suppose somewhere at some point they could have used that money differently, but it is saving us from watching Young play all year at 2B.  

While Iwamura is not exactly young (either is D Young), they could sign him if they like what they see, and offer him a deal comparable to the one Sanchez turned down, since there really is not anyone ready to step up at 2B yet.  That gives you more time to transition someone over there, or move Pedro to first.  

[gamecckfn]

I can't resist the suggestion to play Neil at 2B.  Exactly what has Neil done to warrant any starting position, let alone starting at a position he does not play.

I am not sure there is even a spot for him anywhere but 2B at Indy.  Might as well play him there though, he could at least be a supersub.

[RJReynolds]

I can't resist the suggestion to play Neil at 2B.  Exactly what has Neil done to warrant any starting position, let alone starting at a position he does not play.

In all honesty, as much as I think he sucks, I would rather see Walker get a bunch of major league at bats as a utility type (including at 2B possibly) than see Iwamura get any at all. At least there is a tiny...really tiny...chance that Walker helps this team in such a role in 2011-2014. There is zero chance of Iwamura doing so short of signing the guy to a FA contract that they could have done in the 2010 offseason without giving him $5 mil for 2010 in the first place.

RJR

[RJReynolds]

This is true, and if he can play at a Freddy Sanchez type of level I hope that he can be flipped at the trade deadline for something of future value. To me, that really is his true value to the organization. What kind of player will he net in 2010 in trade. I'm guessing there isn't any chance of his being a type A free agent this offseason is there? Still, either way I'm not sure it will be worth paying $5 mil (or 2/3 of a season prorated at that amount) for the chance of getting an Alderson type or a #42 player in the draft type. I'd rather spend the money on the draft now, get a better player for the money spent, and have a year of evaluation for someone who could potentially be here long term.

RJR

They should still be able to spend plenty on the draft.  I do not see how they have an excuse for not spending any money in the draft with Iwamura here.  I suppose somewhere at some point they could have used that money differently, but it is saving us from watching Young play all year at 2B.  

While Iwamura is not exactly young (either is D Young), they could sign him if they like what they see, and offer him a deal comparable to the one Sanchez turned down, since there really is not anyone ready to step up at 2B yet.  That gives you more time to transition someone over there, or move Pedro to first.  

i agree that giving D Young a chance in 2010 could end up being horrifying. But at least we would know for sure. As it stands now, either Young won't be on the team or he will be a utility guy (which I would be fine with by the way). But we won't know for sure whether or not he could be a starter because we were busy giving those at bats needlessly to Aki.

As for signing Iwamura to an extension, that could have just as easily been done at the end of 2010 without paying him the $5 mil in the first place.

It's not the biggest of deals, and I admit it's a bit nitpicky. But I would rather go with a 100% rebuild over a 92 1/2% rebuild.

RJR

[GoBucs21]

Thanks for taking this thing way off topic.  But none of you supposedly knowledgeable baseball fans seemed to care what it was that Aki said to Pedro and if Pedro took the advice to heart?

All I see is that same old song and dance about whether or not getting Aki was a sound one fiscally as well as for filling a big hole in this team with some one who is better than what we had last year.

Okay, guys use your contacts and find out what Aki said and whether Pedro took it to heart.   

Possum, from what I've heard, he was explaining the difference between sushi and California rolls.

Here's what I know about young players wanting veterans as mentors.  Generally they don't.  The young players are competing with their mentors for jobs.  The young player would rather have the job at the expense of the mentor.

[scrapiron]

Since alvarez and Iwamura are not vying for the same position  your point holds no water.  Besides, why would a young player not take pointers from a veteran?  Especially if he wants to supplant that player.  More likely a young player doesn't want to have to compete with a veteran rather than not have one as a mentor.

[GoBucs21]

Since alvarez and Iwamura are not vying for the same position  your point holds no water.  Besides, why would a young player not take pointers from a veteran?  Especially if he wants to supplant that player.  More likely a young player doesn't want to have to compete with a veteran rather than not have one as a mentor.

Why?  First, I wasn't addressing one player or one specific situation.  I was simply making a point based on conversations I've had with some young players.

You forget that most of the ball players are career centric.  They would rather not have a veteran vying for a job that he may get.  They also tend to be quite arrogant and don't feel the need for such mentorship.  But what do I know, I only get to talk to the guys we are talking about regularly.