P-G Editorial

[RJReynolds]

      I've said it for awhile now but if anyone has a problem with anyone else I would much rather they told me rather than handled it themself. I know it might sound like being a tattle-tale(I had to look up that spelling) but it's better than the war of words that usually follows. If you tell on someone it might just get them a little reminder about the rules. Its obvious people dont like to "tell" on anyone because I've got less than 5 PM's about posts in the last 3 months or so. Before today I don't think an actual real person(not just some spammer) has been banned in months,not that I can remember and the previous person to get banned had a personal attack post like you wouldnt believe but I think only 1-2 people saw it before I deleted it. Someone with 2 previous posts in 6 months went off on someone out of the blue.

I must love this team. It's midnight and I'm still posting to a message board.

By the way, do you know if there is anything special being planned for October 13 at the Forbes wall? I've never been to the annual event and would love to take the family on a 6 hour trek into the Burgh for the 50th anniversary. Have you heard of any plans with this event for 2010?

RJR

[81omar]

   I believe theyre doing something special this year there,I've never been there but I should go sometime. I dont live near the stadium(6 hours for me too) so I'd be coming out when theres no games going on unless some other playoff games get moved to PNC

   Maz was at the 40th anniversary one so maybe he and other players will show up for this one,I'd be surprised if it wasnt a bigger deal than normal. There was a quote I read from Dick Groat that I cant find right now that said he might be there for the 50th one this year

[RJReynolds]

   I believe theyre doing something special this year there,I've never been there but I should go sometime. I dont live near the stadium(6 hours for me too) so I'd be coming out when theres no games going on unless some other playoff games get moved to PNC

   Maz was at the 40th anniversary one so maybe he and other players will show up for this one,I'd be surprised if it wasnt a bigger deal than normal. There was a quote I read from Dick Groat that I cant find right now that said he might be there for the 50th one this year

If the Steelers or Pens are playing the following weekend I have even mire reason to take the kids out of school for a few days....

RJR

[Traco Bucco]

By the way, do you know if there is anything special being planned for October 13 at the Forbes wall? I've never been to the annual event and would love to take the family on a 6 hour trek into the Burgh for the 50th anniversary. Have you heard of any plans with this event for 2010?

The 40th anniversary was pretty neat.  Here's what I wrote about it for the Pirates Listserv, back on 10/16/00 (four days before I got commissioned with the USAF JAG Corps):

I also made it to Friday's event at the Forbes Field wall.  Since I had been
away at college (Houston) or law school (Nashville) for every Oct. 13 since
1993, this was my first time to join the celebration.  I concur with Fr.
John's advice that "Maz Day" is something that every Pirate fan should
undertake to experience at some point.  As I pointed in a brief conversation
with Guy Junker, I can't imagine that many other historical sporting events
are commemorated in such a fashion.  Certainly, our much-esteemed Immaculate
Reception isn't, and my guess is that Joe Carter's series-clincher isn't
either.  Perhaps they do something in NYC on the anniversary of Bobby
Thomson's home run.

Unfortunately, I did not get to meet with Fr. John, although I think I saw
him when he was positioned near Maz during the autograph-signing session.  I
did, however, have the opportunity to chat with several other luminaries,
and I'll have pictures with Nellie King, Bob Friend, Elroy Face and Ron
Neccai to prove it as soon as I can get out to Ritz Camera at South Hills
Village to pick them up.  From the moment that he stepped out of his white
limosine (2:47 pm, according to the Post-Gazette) until the time that he
rode off into the sunset, Mazeroski was besieged by admirers, which
precluded me from getting a picture of the two of us, but I did manage to
get a shot of him shortly after he emerged from the limosine.

Perhaps the only problem was the sound system's lack of power.  It was fine
in the early innings, when the crowd was smaller.  But as more people
arrived and crowded around the sound system (since that was where Maz went
to sign autographs), it became impossible to hear for those of us who were
not on the front lines.  When a cheer erupted sometime after three, I
figured it was for Hal Smith's home run, but it was impossible to be
certain.  On the other hand, Maz's blast was audible out in the equivalent
of the nose-bleed section, so my conjecture is that they had turned down the
sound a little during the autograph session.

The most amusing moment of the proceedings that I did not experience
first-hand (instead, I heard the story from an ear-witness) was that a young
person, upon driving by and seeing all of the people assembled at the wall,
enquired "hey -- what are you guys protesting?"  I like to think, had I been
within earshot, that I would have replied: "Maz's exclusion from the Hall of
Fame".   The throng did take up the chant of "Hall of Fame! Hall of Fame!" a
couple of times, and one participant expressed his desire to see next year's
celebration take place in Cooperstown.  Regardless of where it may be, it is
definitely worth experiencing.

[wvbucco]

Thanks for sharing that.

[Gnats Eyelash]

The PG ran an http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10035/1033306-192.stm editorial that called for Nutting to sell.

Now, if I had my druthers, he would sell. But, he doesn't look like he's going to and I generally agree with the plan the front office has, so I can be patient; after all what's another season or two when you're in so deep?

My question is about the PG's ethics. Should they not disclose they were once partial owners and had similar input for several years as Nutting did at the time?  Do they take no responsibility? Do they just get to pretend they had nothing to do with this mess?

In addition, did their partial ownership allow this situation to develop. They did not do a good job covering the team (the one they co-owned) at the time and never called into question many bad moves that were made.

I'm calling them hypocrits.

The Block family did have shares in the team and sold them in 2003.  The PG Plaza that used to be part of the Home Plate entrance may have been part of that investment.  Depending on how the buyout was handled, it's possible it may have played a role in the payroll purge that led to the ARam giveaway.

I've always been uncomfortable with that "arrangement."  Whether there was a memo or not, a reporter would have to think twice, and so would an editor, if they considered taking the team to the woodshed.

Some sort of mea culpa is in order:  "We shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.  Our involvement was a conflict of interest.  We realized that and got out.  It won't happen again."  That would be a good start.

At the same time, it shouldn't have any impact on how the present editorial board views the current situation...unless the Blocks are directing this as part of some sort of revenge motive.  Obviously, the board members are not Nutting fans.  But it should be noted they have the resources to document...other than the 14 year association with Pirates failure...why Bob Nutting isn't the owner that will get things done.

How about an expose on how the McClatchy/Nutting relationship soured?  Or something definitive on how much power the Nuttings had over the years?  How long have they at least held the power of the purse strings?

Regardless of what answers would come out of such a series, it would be a service to their readership and the region they serve.  And provide a basis for knowledgeable editorial comment in the future.

There's no question Nutting is not held in...ahem...high regard as an owner.  That makes him an easy target.  Outside of team performance, I believe many fans believe they got shafted when the team got a stadium that increased its value, and they got stuck with a 400 mil bill and a still lousy major league team.   

[Novelist]

Wait, you tried to comment on the actual genisis of the thread; that's not allowed. We're only allowed to be amazed by the wonder of certain posters who can see into the future and know all the answers. Their foresight is exceeded only by their 20-20 hindsight.

If we start to remain on topic, this forum might become a place where we talk about the minors, the draft, the team in general without having to say, "Of course, I preface this with the official rebuke of all that is Nutting".  You know, kind of what it was until this off season.

And to think I used to be on the side viewed as Nutting skeptics.

[Gnats Eyelash]

Wait, you tried to comment on the actual genisis of the thread; that's not allowed. We're only allowed to be amazed by the wonder of certain posters who can see into the future and know all the answers. Their foresight is exceeded only by their 20-20 hindsight.

If we start to remain on topic, this forum might become a place where we talk about the minors, the draft, the team in general without having to say, "Of course, I preface this with the official rebuke of all that is Nutting".  You know, kind of what it was until this off season.

And to think I used to be on the side viewed as Nutting skeptics.

You raised an issue that deserved a comment, not a continuation of the swerve.

Personally, I would have a tough time picking a top villain in this.  Political leadership in the 90s, which settled for a buffoon like McClatchy?  Ownership, which included McClatchy and those who sponsored him?  Or those entrusted with shining light on the shenanigans, such as the PG, who allowed themselves to become part of the shenanigans.

I think an effective press corps could have helped derail a lot of things that created and added to the misery over the years.  Instead, many times it seems it just put its head in the sand and waited for the free buffet.

[RJReynolds]

By the way, do you know if there is anything special being planned for October 13 at the Forbes wall? I've never been to the annual event and would love to take the family on a 6 hour trek into the Burgh for the 50th anniversary. Have you heard of any plans with this event for 2010?

The 40th anniversary was pretty neat.  Here's what I wrote about it for the Pirates Listserv, back on 10/16/00 (four days before I got commissioned with the USAF JAG Corps):

I also made it to Friday's event at the Forbes Field wall.  Since I had been
away at college (Houston) or law school (Nashville) for every Oct. 13 since
1993, this was my first time to join the celebration.  I concur with Fr.
John's advice that "Maz Day" is something that every Pirate fan should
undertake to experience at some point.  As I pointed in a brief conversation
with Guy Junker, I can't imagine that many other historical sporting events
are commemorated in such a fashion.  Certainly, our much-esteemed Immaculate
Reception isn't, and my guess is that Joe Carter's series-clincher isn't
either.  Perhaps they do something in NYC on the anniversary of Bobby
Thomson's home run.

Unfortunately, I did not get to meet with Fr. John, although I think I saw
him when he was positioned near Maz during the autograph-signing session.  I
did, however, have the opportunity to chat with several other luminaries,
and I'll have pictures with Nellie King, Bob Friend, Elroy Face and Ron
Neccai to prove it as soon as I can get out to Ritz Camera at South Hills
Village to pick them up.  From the moment that he stepped out of his white
limosine (2:47 pm, according to the Post-Gazette) until the time that he
rode off into the sunset, Mazeroski was besieged by admirers, which
precluded me from getting a picture of the two of us, but I did manage to
get a shot of him shortly after he emerged from the limosine.

Perhaps the only problem was the sound system's lack of power.  It was fine
in the early innings, when the crowd was smaller.  But as more people
arrived and crowded around the sound system (since that was where Maz went
to sign autographs), it became impossible to hear for those of us who were
not on the front lines.  When a cheer erupted sometime after three, I
figured it was for Hal Smith's home run, but it was impossible to be
certain.  On the other hand, Maz's blast was audible out in the equivalent
of the nose-bleed section, so my conjecture is that they had turned down the
sound a little during the autograph session.

The most amusing moment of the proceedings that I did not experience
first-hand (instead, I heard the story from an ear-witness) was that a young
person, upon driving by and seeing all of the people assembled at the wall,
enquired "hey -- what are you guys protesting?"  I like to think, had I been
within earshot, that I would have replied: "Maz's exclusion from the Hall of
Fame".   The throng did take up the chant of "Hall of Fame! Hall of Fame!" a
couple of times, and one participant expressed his desire to see next year's
celebration take place in Cooperstown.  Regardless of where it may be, it is
definitely worth experiencing.

That's really good stuff thank you. I can't imagine experiencing something like that, let alone with my kids.

RJR

[RJReynolds]

Wait, you tried to comment on the actual genisis of the thread; that's not allowed. We're only allowed to be amazed by the wonder of certain posters who can see into the future and know all the answers. Their foresight is exceeded only by their 20-20 hindsight.

If we start to remain on topic, this forum might become a place where we talk about the minors, the draft, the team in general without having to say, "Of course, I preface this with the official rebuke of all that is Nutting".  You know, kind of what it was until this off season.

And to think I used to be on the side viewed as Nutting skeptics.

If I weren't drunk off my **** from being baracaded indoors all day I would most likely nhave a smart **** comment for you.

As is...the Founders Centennial IPA thant I's having is doing wonders for my self control.

So have at it. And if you're a beer drinker, the Centennnial IPA isd highly recommended. Especially the 8th one.

RJR

[PMike]

Wait, you tried to comment on the actual genisis of the thread; that's not allowed. We're only allowed to be amazed by the wonder of certain posters who can see into the future and know all the answers. Their foresight is exceeded only by their 20-20 hindsight.

If we start to remain on topic, this forum might become a place where we talk about the minors, the draft, the team in general without having to say, "Of course, I preface this with the official rebuke of all that is Nutting".  You know, kind of what it was until this off season.

And to think I used to be on the side viewed as Nutting skeptics.

If I weren't drunk off my **** from being baracaded indoors all day I would most likely nhave a smart **** comment for you.

As is...the Founders Centennial IPA thant I's having is doing wonders for my self control.

So have at it. And if you're a beer drinker, the Centennnial IPA isd highly recommended. Especially the 8th one.

RJR

I like the Founders brewery a lot!  Their Breakfast Stout is my favorite I've had from them!  For me though, with the snow, it is a Dogfish Head day.  Chicory Stout and 90 Minute Imperial IPA.

I love beer.  However, not condoning the drunk part.

Mike

[RJReynolds]

It's not often that I get a chance to have a day where I just sit back and relax. Don't have teams to coach on a Saturday or drive my kids to practice somewhere. I have had a few too many admittedly, but it doesn't happen very often. With the Super Bowl tomorrow it may be 2 straight days however...

Founders Centennial is just good stuff. I've always enjoyed the taste profile along the Sam Adams line and I just find the Centennial; is like Sam Adams...just better.

90 minute IPA is supercharged with hops. Only real men can drink that and get enjoyment out of it...it's extremely bitter. I was able to have some a while ago and while I wouldn't go out of my way to have it again, it was good stuff. The IBU's on that are probabbly just out of control. Centennial is my favorite...bar nbone. I was a bit upset when I went to a beer store and fond that the reason I like is is because I prefer a taste profile with West Coast IPA;'s that lean towards being a bit more fruity....but I'm secure enough in my manhood to be ok with that.

RJR

[Possum]

Let' stay on topic folks.  If you want to talk beer do it in the Off Topic Forum.

Thanks,