Latin America

[Hammer]

First off, thanks to everyone at Onlybucs staff for getting this website up and running.

The cold reality of the Pirates situation in Latin America shown at the press conference should be a reminder of how clueless and inept this organization has been at building a first class baseball franchise. Kevin McClatchy and Dave Littlefield should be ashamed of themselves for the conditions they expected prospects to learn and grow.

[fjk090852-2]

I was listening to a Pittsburgh sports talk station on my way home from work, and the host did blast Littlefield and Kevin regarding the poor conditions the Bucs had in Latin America. I know there has been much negative talk about Nutting, but I feel he has brought in some good people to right the Pirate ship. It is a darn shame we lost our relationship with Latin America. That should have never happened because the people have so much respect for Clemente, and we will never know if a few young players would have chosen the Bucs over another team, if the Bucs had a presence in the area.

[Jimbo21]

I have to wonder, with the current group in place, would the Torres promise have been broken?

[fjk090852-2]

I doubt if the promise would have been broken. I think part of the reason he was moved was because he was so upset with how the Bucs handled that situation, and be burned some bridges. On the other hand the Bucs new staff might have had the groundwork laid for the new complex in the works, so rather than upsetting him more, they looked at how they could deal him, and then move on with their plans in Latin America. Just my thoughts!

[wvbucco]

I think dealing him had more to do with his age and the potential imminent collapse of his abilities.  He has thrown tons of innings for us.  I think they wanted to get something for him while they could.

[Gnats Eyelash]

The cold reality of the Pirates situation in Latin America shown at the press conference should be a reminder of how clueless and inept this organization has been at building a first class baseball franchise. Kevin McClatchy and Dave Littlefield should be ashamed of themselves for the conditions they expected prospects to learn and grow.

I tend not to buy into Nutting's "blame the last guy out the door" scenario.  But I am not surprised that some in the Pittsburgh media follows the putz on this one.  After all, it is the EASIEST way to cover the story.

The facts are the Nuttings have had control of the board for several years...not just for the past year when Sir Robert of Nothing took over.  This would be like George Bush starting to object to the conditions in Iraq.  Or Bill Clinton starting a program to protect pages that work at the White House from sexual advances.

The question that hasn't been asked is "Were funds available for this purpose previously?"  Given that the team says it just allocated $4-5 million for the project, the obvious answer is:  No!

The good news to come out of this is that by Bobblehead hanging this one on Littlefield, perhaps the departed GM may be encouraged to fire back, and we may get a clear picture of what was and was not happening in that front office.

I would hope at least one Pittsburgh journalist would be on the phone today giving DL that opportunity.

Whether he would take the bait is questionable.  But that he was contacted for comment should be documented. 

[Possum]

The good news to come out of this is that by Bobblehead hanging this one on Littlefield, perhaps the departed GM may be encouraged to fire back, and we may get a clear picture of what was and was not happening in that front office.

I wonder just how much credibility DL would have with the fans right now.  I for one would read his comments and perhaps consider them but would not take the seriously.  He was incompetent and this would just give him a chance to lay blame on the owners. 

Not that blame should not be laid on the owners.  KM did not have the money to pull this off and the Nuttings did not have the baseball experience.  That all said makes for incompetence in running any organization.  They relied upon DL who while he had the experience did not do the job with what was available. 

For me the proof will be in the pudding as I watch this group manage the Buccos.  They say they want to build from within.  Well they have a start with some of the moves made in the scouting and development areas (more need to be made like getting rid of the guys from the previous administration), the Latin American Academy, and the words in today's P-G about wanting to do more in the international arenas.

I have them on a short leash and will wait to see what happens in these areas before I make any rash decisions about the fitness of this ownership and management group.

[Gnats Eyelash]

I wonder just how much credibility DL would have with the fans right now. 

A fair point.

As a GM, he would have very little credibility.  But, depending on the interview and the depth, he could have a lot of credibility, especially with those of us who weren't born yesterday.

I've always been of the opinion that Littlefield said a lot of things that basically covered the butts of ownership.  Because the press never pushed him on those issues, it was a rather easy assignment.  I would think after covering someone's arse for the better part of six years, Mr. Littlefield may be loathe to let the impression remain unchallenged that the conditions in the Dominican were his fault.

From a DL perspective, it may have more to do with his future in baseball than wanting to get into a pissing match with Bobblehead.

How often have you seen an act like Nutting's in sports or business?  Wouldn't it have been just as good to show the plans for the new facility and let the past be the past?  Did we see the Chargers trash Schottenheimer?  Did Parcells trash the previous regime in Miami?     

Then again, maybe Bobblehead knows he can get away with it because DL's contract could prohibit him from making derogatory statements until it expires.  Or maybe he is trying to get DL to go off, and then invoking such a clause to avoid paying him.

That would be about right for this ownership group.  McClatchy tried to get Bonifay to resign instead of firing him so he wouldn't have to pay him.

[Possum]

Never thought of it in the context of DL still having a contract with the Bucs.  It would be good for Nutting if DL would do something to void the remainder of the contract.  Good point.

[ECBucs]

I agree with build from within but I still give this group a short leash.

Build from within should not mean don't expect us to have a good team for 5 more years.

There needs to be a sense of urgency to get the team better. The division is weak, the Bucs should not be a doormat.

[Max Power]

There is no Magic pill for our Fix.  At least the new Managment is't trying to sell it to us that way.  If they did nothing but dump money into this, the results would be a quick peak and then a death blow.  We don't need to go down that path.  

The Pirates managment is trying to re-stock the Minors with talent and prospects. They are attempting to draw in talent from Latin America where we have recently been truely lacking.  It's not an over night job.  They are trying to regain our footing by putting prospects in the system in "non-stop motion".  Something also lacking of recent.  

I like what they are doing.  The money they are spending there will pay dividends.  It also boosts the quality of life there in that area, just by being there.  It's not a terribly huge amount - a whole lot of bang for our buck.  We need to be patient and allow this to work for us.  That goes for the whole system.  It seems to me that it's what the management is trying to accomplish.  They are goind about it the right way, or so it seems.  

Yes, we should have been doing this years ago.  Yes many of us have run out of patience. That is understandable.  I'm willing to buy into the plan because it makes sense. Good Baseball Sense - something truely lacking of recent.  

The direction the club is taking in regards to bringing in talent from Latin America is a good direction.  It's a beginning, and to me all be it long over due, it is what it is.  I'm giving this new Managment Team some growing room.  Painful it may be, but I can see a tunnel for which there will someday be light at the end of.  There used to not even be that.  

Things have changed and are changing.  It's all I've ever asked for, some positive changes.  I'm using a longer leash.

[Gnats Eyelash]

If they did nothing but dump money into this, the results would be a quick peak and then a death blow.  We don't need to go down that path.  

I don't think they have to bet the ranch on payroll, Max, but they've been shortchanging all aspects of this organization to pay down debt for years.

There is no reason they could not have boosted payroll 10 to 20 mil a year for a couple of years until the farm system caught up and the Dominican facility started to pay dividends.  Revenue sharing and media revenues would have covered that.

If it is always either/or, this club will NEVER win for an extended period of time, and ownership should sell to someone who is willing to compete.

The mission seems to be to try to win at the lowest possible cost to ownership profits as possible.  The Nothings have enough money and will make millions from an eventual sale.

[Max Power]

I don't think they have to bet the ranch on payroll, Max, but they've been shortchanging all aspects of this organization to pay down debt for years.

There is no reason they could not have boosted payroll 10 to 20 mil a year for a couple of years until the farm system caught up and the Dominican facility started to pay dividends.  Revenue sharing and media revenues would have covered that.

If it is always either/or, this club will NEVER win for an extended period of time, and ownership should sell to someone who is willing to compete.

The mission seems to be to try to win at the lowest possible cost to ownership profits as possible.  The Nothings have enough money and will make millions from an eventual sale.
[/quote]

While I understand that exact stance, I also see where they are coming from.  Why not use that money to Fix our internal problems attract more bodies to the depleted minors, and then maybe I could see us putting some money on the payroll.  That piece however isn't the biggest priority and it would be throwing it away. 

It would be a business move to go that route and might just bite them in the butt instead.  It seems to be a risk they deem worth taking.  Will people stay away in droves if there isn't much addition at the Major League level?  It's possible.  A year or so down the line it may really matter, and at THAT time, I'll be on my soap box screaming for it - but not until then.

[Gnats Eyelash]

A year or so down the line it may really matter, and at THAT time, I'll be on my soap box screaming for it - but not until then.

Let's go a year or two down the line.

Jason Bay is probably gone because he is either continuing his decline or is poised for free agency.  Same thing with Nady.  Same thing with Sanchez.  Same thing with Jack Wilson.  Perhaps with LaRoche and Bautista as well.

McCutcheon and Walker better be all that and a bag of chips...

At some point, they have to invest in player assets or we start from scratch.  What remaining fans there are would more than likely cash out after that.

If they would have invested some money this year, they could have used that to placate fans for a longer term solution.  Who is going to be placated with Bobblehead doing the Hokey Pokey, other than the saps who are in the local media.