Very Well Done Article On Bucsdugout

[RJReynolds]

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2012/1/30/2757582/neal-huntington-pittsburgh-pirates

Speaks to NH having the correct plan but possibly not very good execution and how important this year will be on both the major league and minor league levels with regard to properly evaluating his performance.

Oh, and that the off season has been terrible.

Geez. You'd think I wrote the thing (I didn't).

RJR

[WTM]

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2012/1/30/2757582/neal-huntington-pittsburgh-pirates
Geez. You'd think I wrote the thing (I didn't).

I wouldn't.

[RJReynolds]

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2012/1/30/2757582/neal-huntington-pittsburgh-pirates
Geez. You'd think I wrote the thing (I didn't).

I wouldn't.

That's only because you have the inate ability to differentiate between someone who can string together two coherent sentences and someone who cannot. I happen to populate the latter group. But the gist of the author's article is what I have been saying here for the past several months.

RJR

[Possum]

RJR,

My first thought was that you did write the article, especially the part about NH not executing the plan properly.  But then I realized that the way the article was written made some sense.     I was going to link to the article but you beat me to it.  Thanks.

[RJReynolds]

I feel like I am in the Monty Python abuse clinic sketch. Sheesh.

RJR

[ECBucs]

I read the article and concluded that Charlie has been drinking to much.

Hopefully Pirate Prospects doesn't publish a corroborating article.

I don't want to wait until 2019 before the Bucs are a serious contender under NH's replacement.

[WTM]

I read the article and concluded that Charlie has been drinking to much.

Hopefully Pirate Prospects doesn't publish a corroborating article.

I don't want to wait until 2019 before the Bucs are a serious contender under NH's replacement.

I've said before, if I was writing a future history of the Pirates and chose to give it an optimistic tone, I'd have some other GM coming in and succeeding by building on what NH has started.  I think that's the most realistic, positive scenario.

[Pirates2014Champ]

I read the article and concluded that Charlie has been drinking to much.

Hopefully Pirate Prospects doesn't publish a corroborating article.

I don't want to wait until 2019 before the Bucs are a serious contender under NH's replacement.

I've said before, if I was writing a future history of the Pirates and chose to give it an optimistic tone, I'd have some other GM coming in and succeeding by building on what NH has started.  I think that's the most realistic, positive scenario.

to me that's basically how that will turn out here in a couple years

[RJReynolds]

NH has done what needed to be done. He gets an enormous amount of credit for that. He just hasn't done it particularly well.  He is like a doctor who finally gets a diagnosis of a cracked heel correct but sends you to physical therapy for arthritis. We are on the right track but I am afraid someone needs to come in and finish the job in a more efficient manner.

RJR

[mouse]

I'm not sure there is any approach other then the one NH employed. You can't get free agents at any rational part of their careers, you can't get talent by trades. That leaves the draft and looking at international talent, and both those sources take development time. An issue might be picking pitchers rather than hitters. Pitchers take longer to develop and are a  lot more risky than hitters. However, hitters -- at least the can't miss ones -- are gone by the end of the first round, as a practical matter. The Pirates problem has been that they get one first round choice, no second round (compensation round) choice, and then start again in what is for all practical purposes the third round, even if called the second. Compare the Pirates position to teams like the Red Sox and Yankees. I'll venture that all those type teams have more picks by the end of round five than the Pirates.
     While the hitters are quickly gone, most teams hesitate on pitchers, especially high risk high school pitchers. NH's strategy, I think, is based on that concept. There's an area where he can compete and where he gets his pick of players. And if he can get really good pitchers, he can win and he can trade for whatever else he needs. At this point it's too soon to trade as who knows for sure who will bloom and who will fall short.
    The real problem for NH is that he doesn't evaluate talent (presumably). That is done by scouts and stats and perhaps even an old crone who reads chicken tossed in the dirt behind the team offices. He is at the mercy of those evaluators and evaluations. I suspect it will be another year or two until we know how those pitchers he's been grabbing will work out. Then we will know if he did a good job, or just tried and failed.

[ECBucs]

I read the article and concluded that Charlie has been drinking to much.

Hopefully Pirate Prospects doesn't publish a corroborating article.

I don't want to wait until 2019 before the Bucs are a serious contender under NH's replacement.

I've said before, if I was writing a future history of the Pirates and chose to give it an optimistic tone, I'd have some other GM coming in and succeeding by building on what NH has started.  I think that's the most realistic, positive scenario.

I don't really care that much who is is gm when Bucs finally win, but if it isn't going to NH then I would hope the decision would be made to cut ties with him after this season.

I just don't see that as likely to happen barring a disaster in 2012. It seems like Coonley and Nutting have confidence in him (reason for extension) but it could be that they only expect him to take care of setting up getting talent into the system rather than building a contender.  Maybe Nutting and Coonley started out with a 15 year plan.

[RJReynolds]

I think the article is correct in that, with the money that has been spent over the past four drafts, we should have a much better system than one that is regarded as average to slightly above. Especially since it is a lack of depth that causes the lower than expected rankings. He is right to get over slot talent. He is just getting the wrong ones apparently.

RJR

[markson33]

The article just seems like broken record.  There are no real alternatives presented by the writer - he says make a trade, sign Cutch, etc. etc.  He complains about the relative lack of an offseason.

I ask, make a trade for whom, and give up what?  At what cost do you sign Cutch, and is he willing to sign.   The reality, is that if we trade guys like Grossman or Taillon for Smoak (just a hypothetical), are the Pirates really better off long term? Are they even better off for 2012? What if Cutch doesn't want to be here?  Will any realistic free agent signing elevate the 2012 Pirates to contender status?

I'm all for creative wheeling and dealing, but I think the best long term solution for the Pirates is to develop internally.  While I'm not a big fan of the 2008 or 2009 drafts, it is also far to early to write them off and say that NH failed.  The process that Coonley, Nutting and NH started is a long one, but I think they need to see it through and not drive for .500.

[bradlej31]

Look at where the Rays are now:

- continual influx of talent (especially pitching) from minors
- only guaranteed contracts are über club friendly
- no money tied up in bullpen

So they have a ton of talent AND a ton of payroll flexibility.


That is the goal.  I hope we don't stop until we are there.

[VaPirate]

Pretty good article because it emphasizes Neil draft record - And I think it is a fair "warning".  If '08 and '09 flop this year then Neil is in very hot water and rightfully so.  

I think the minor league development this year is pretty much the single criteria he will be judged on, meaning I disagree with the article's rather tired arguments about lack of off season activity.  At first he says that he wanted the Pirates to exercise the options then agrees that the Pirates made the right market decision, then is not happy with the replacement players signed while acknowledging they are probably a bit better then the players he initially wanted the Pirates to sign for contracts that would have been very poor market deals.  Excuse me, but - "huh?!?!"  

And of course the always present but never explained - the Pirates need to make a splash in the off season.  Why?  Does he think the Pirates are one or two players away from competing?  If so, then I would be interested in his argument, but as is, this is merely old pointless stuff.

But again, I think the main thrust of his arguement is the farm system and this is legit.  It needs to break out this year.  I'm hopeful.  But if it doesn't, Neil's days may be numbered.