McCutchen's demands

[Dogknot3]

I met a good friend of a scout this weekend.  The scout is with a West Coast team, but follows the Pirates since Pittsburgh is his hometown.  The Pirates are looked at by many teams since their past record of signing players is not very good.  I don't know how true this friend was, but I will share what I heard.

McCutchen wants $17 million a year.  I am not sure for how many years, but that is what he is asking for right now.  The Pirates are also shopping him, but might not do anything unless Marte or Grossman have a good Spring Training.

I don't know how true this is, but there is no way McCutchen is worth $17 million a year right now.  I think it will be a shame if the Pirates don't sign him, but I have heard from other sources that it is McCutchen that is holding up any new deal.   

[lost_zero]

Are you saying that's what he's supposedly asking for as an average per year for the whole deal, or the salary to buy out the first FA year?

[Pirates2014Champ]

I met a good friend of a scout this weekend.  The scout is with a West Coast team, but follows the Pirates since Pittsburgh is his hometown.  The Pirates are looked at by many teams since their past record of signing players is not very good.  I don't know how true this friend was, but I will share what I heard.

McCutchen wants $17 million a year.  I am not sure for how many years, but that is what he is asking for right now.  The Pirates are also shopping him, but might not do anything unless Marte or Grossman have a good Spring Training.

I don't know how true this is, but there is no way McCutchen is worth $17 million a year right now.  I think it will be a shame if the Pirates don't sign him, but I have heard from other sources that it is McCutchen that is holding up any new deal.   

Might as well trade him within the next year. Dueces Cutch.

[speedloader88]

McCuthen will be traded next off season.  I have believed this since last July.  If Marte can be adequate, then McCuthen will be traded.  Mr. Nutting is very enamoroued with Marte.  McClouth is insurance in the event someone knocks Huntington's socks off with an offer at this deadline.

This is not what Mr. Nutting said, but my interpretation of what he did say.

[gamecckfn]

I met a good friend of a scout this weekend.  The scout is with a West Coast team, but follows the Pirates since Pittsburgh is his hometown.  The Pirates are looked at by many teams since their past record of signing players is not very good.  I don't know how true this friend was, but I will share what I heard.

McCutchen wants $17 million a year.  I am not sure for how many years, but that is what he is asking for right now.  The Pirates are also shopping him, but might not do anything unless Marte or Grossman have a good Spring Training.

I don't know how true this is, but there is no way McCutchen is worth $17 million a year right now.  I think it will be a shame if the Pirates don't sign him, but I have heard from other sources that it is McCutchen that is holding up any new deal.   

Might as well trade him within the next year. Dueces Cutch.

If he wants that to be his average pay per year, like lost0 said, I still do not think I trade him.  But you might be more open to it a year out from FA.  I do not see the point of doing it now, even if Marte and Grossman do real well out of the gate.

[shamtown]

Cutch isn't worth $17 million per year.

[markson33]

I agree that Cutch is trade bait, but NH might as well wait till he gets peak value and Marte/Grossman show that they are capable.

I would not be surprised at all if this is what Cutch is asking for.  If he looks at Kemp, Tulo, Cargo and Upton as comps it doesn't seem to be unreasonable to ask for $17 and get $14/15.  I could see 8 years $115mm.  I think the Pirates could/should be able to afford that, but Cutch may be more valuable to them in a trade for missing peices - especially if Marte pans out.

I hope NH learns a lessen here that its best to strike early and try to get a Tabata type deal.

[Pirates2014Champ]

I agree that Cutch is trade bait, but NH might as well wait till he gets peak value and Marte/Grossman show that they are capable.

I would not be surprised at all if this is what Cutch is asking for.  If he looks at Kemp, Tulo, Cargo and Upton as comps it doesn't seem to be unreasonable to ask for $17 and get $14/15.  I could see 8 years $115mm.  I think the Pirates could/should be able to afford that, but Cutch may be more valuable to them in a trade for missing peices - especially if Marte pans out.

I hope NH learns a lessen here that its best to strike early and try to get a Tabata type deal.

The FO seem well on their way to believe that they can get Marte/Grossman to produce like Cutch at a significantly lessor cost.  As it stands right now, The best minor league system could trade THEIR Top 4 prospects and STILL would not equal to Cutch's value.

No later than July 2013 is when the Pirates should have enough brass to trade Cutch to conincident with Cole, Taillon, Marte, Bell, Grossman, Sanchez, on and on.

The opportunity to win now has set sailed for another couple years.

[RJReynolds]

Pardon me for not thinking that what you heard is especially accurate. While it will enable many here to add it to their "Cutch is holding up the deal" template, hearing something that a friend of a second cousin's boyfriends hairdresser said isn't exactly Cutch or his agent going directly to the press with his demands. I understand that you prefaced it with the fact that you do not know that it is accurate, so I do thank you for that. His asking for that much over the entirety of a deal that only buys out his arb years or a year of FA would be absurd. Now, if we were talking about a 10 year deal or something along those lines, then perhaps he would be looking at closer to those types of numbers. Admittedly, some here have speculated that Cutch would not want to merely sign a contract to buy out his arb years and a year or two of FA, but that he would want a long term deal, and the $17 million number would tie into that in theory. But I need to stress that this is barely third hand "information", whereas we have a wealth of information of the Pirates not wanting to pay market value to their own players. I'm still very much thinking that ownership is holding things up.

RJR

[PMike]

Pardon me for not thinking that what you heard is especially accurate. While it will enable many here to add it to their "Cutch is holding up the deal" template, hearing something that a friend of a second cousin's boyfriends hairdresser said isn't exactly Cutch or his agent going directly to the press with his demands. I understand that you prefaced it with the fact that you do not know that it is accurate, so I do thank you for that. His asking for that much over the entirety of a deal that only buys out his arb years or a year of FA would be absurd. Now, if we were talking about a 10 year deal or something along those lines, then perhaps he would be looking at closer to those types of numbers. Admittedly, some here have speculated that Cutch would not want to merely sign a contract to buy out his arb years and a year or two of FA, but that he would want a long term deal, and the $17 million number would tie into that in theory. But I need to stress that this is barely third hand "information", whereas we have a wealth of information of the Pirates not wanting to pay market value to their own players. I'm still very much thinking that ownership is holding things up.

RJR

I'm not quite as dismissive.  The relationship isn't nearly as far off or far fetched as you suggest.  It's a friend of the poster who is close friends with a scout.  That's roughly the same relationship some on here have as they post info.

Anyway, the info isn't that far fetched either.  It is ridiculous if Cutch is only looking for a year or two of FA and wants all of those years at $17 million.  However, like you said, if this is a 8-10 year deal at $17 million (or perhaps a negotiated $15 million per year), it is a much better deal.  If he can put up 5-6 WAR over the next 10 years, I would think $15 million per year is well worth it and probably won't handicap them in other spending too much.  Especially in the near future with the situation in the minors.

[gamecckfn]

I agree that Cutch is trade bait, but NH might as well wait till he gets peak value and Marte/Grossman show that they are capable.

I would not be surprised at all if this is what Cutch is asking for.  If he looks at Kemp, Tulo, Cargo and Upton as comps it doesn't seem to be unreasonable to ask for $17 and get $14/15.  I could see 8 years $115mm.  I think the Pirates could/should be able to afford that, but Cutch may be more valuable to them in a trade for missing peices - especially if Marte pans out.

I hope NH learns a lessen here that its best to strike early and try to get a Tabata type deal.

There is no reason to pay McCutchen anything over $1 million this year, not matter what the deal might look like. He is scheduled to make $450k or so.  If he is looking for a deal like that, I just go year to year with him.

[RJReynolds]

Pardon me for not thinking that what you heard is especially accurate. While it will enable many here to add it to their "Cutch is holding up the deal" template, hearing something that a friend of a second cousin's boyfriends hairdresser said isn't exactly Cutch or his agent going directly to the press with his demands. I understand that you prefaced it with the fact that you do not know that it is accurate, so I do thank you for that. His asking for that much over the entirety of a deal that only buys out his arb years or a year of FA would be absurd. Now, if we were talking about a 10 year deal or something along those lines, then perhaps he would be looking at closer to those types of numbers. Admittedly, some here have speculated that Cutch would not want to merely sign a contract to buy out his arb years and a year or two of FA, but that he would want a long term deal, and the $17 million number would tie into that in theory. But I need to stress that this is barely third hand "information", whereas we have a wealth of information of the Pirates not wanting to pay market value to their own players. I'm still very much thinking that ownership is holding things up.

RJR

I'm not quite as dismissive.  The relationship isn't nearly as far off or far fetched as you suggest.  It's a friend of the poster who is close friends with a scout.  That's roughly the same relationship some on here have as they post info.

Anyway, the info isn't that far fetched either.  It is ridiculous if Cutch is only looking for a year or two of FA and wants all of those years at $17 million.  However, like you said, if this is a 8-10 year deal at $17 million (or perhaps a negotiated $15 million per year), it is a much better deal.  If he can put up 5-6 WAR over the next 10 years, I would think $15 million per year is well worth it and probably won't handicap them in other spending too much.  Especially in the near future with the situation in the minors.

If local media can't get anything like this type of information even in whispers, I highly doubt that a scout for a west coast team is going to have it. Makes absoltely no sense. Maybe the scout is speculating as well, but if someone so out of the loop has heard something like this, my guess is that local media would have as well. And if they felt it was credible, it would make for a big news story. There would be no reason for them to buiry it.

So I'm calling major shenanigans on this one.

But you are correct, that the numbers would add up if it were a longer term deal. Not that the Pirates would ever consider something like that.

RJR

[wvbucco]

I agree that Cutch is trade bait, but NH might as well wait till he gets peak value and Marte/Grossman show that they are capable.

I would not be surprised at all if this is what Cutch is asking for.  If he looks at Kemp, Tulo, Cargo and Upton as comps it doesn't seem to be unreasonable to ask for $17 and get $14/15.  I could see 8 years $115mm.  I think the Pirates could/should be able to afford that, but Cutch may be more valuable to them in a trade for missing peices - especially if Marte pans out.

I hope NH learns a lessen here that its best to strike early and try to get a Tabata type deal.

There is no reason to pay McCutchen anything over $1 million this year, not matter what the deal might look like. He is scheduled to make $450k or so.  If he is looking for a deal like that, I just go year to year with him.

If he is asking for $17M a year then I agree.  There's no discount to be found in that price.  Wait until his last arbitration year and offer him that if he is worth it.   What are the chances of him being worth more than that?  Slim, if you ask me- waiting him out is a risk worth taking.

[ECBucs]

Matt Kemp is going to make about $21 million a year each year between 2013 and 2019.

He is going to make 10 million in 2012 which I think would have been his last arbitration year.

So I could see McCuth being worth $17 million a year pretty quickly on a long term deal.  As one of the previous posters said that could be a bargain for team.

What many of us forget (and I'm including myself here) is that we think in terms of contracts based upon Bucs history (Kendall still has gotten most from team). That even though that turned in to a bad deal for Bucs because of his injuries a lot of players get a  lot bigger contracts.

Until proven otherwise, I'm very skepical about the Bucs willingness to pay anyone $10 million a season.

[markson33]

If he waits for two more years then he is in Matt Kemp territory  - 8 years $160 million ($20 million per, plus inflation for arguments sake).  He is saying to the Pirates "sign me now and I only cost $135 mm.  I don't see that as far fetched at all, especially if the Bucs can get him down to $115 or so.  

Regardless of the source, I don't think that demand is outrageous from Cutch's standpoint.