Future Mccutchen trade

[firchf1]

Now that Fielder has signed ,The american league is stacked with sluggers .If the pirates cant resign him what do you think Mccutchen is worth and who do you think will blow away the pirates with a deal?

[RJReynolds]

The fact that Pirate fans discuss such a thing and are ok with it tells anyone objective everything they need to know about how numb we have become to the cycle of losing and how many have bought into the propaganda that the Pirates cannot spend more than they currently are and remain viable.

If the Pirates end up trading Cutch it will be because:

1. The owner is unwilling to fund the team sufficiently to compete

2. The GM, working under these constraints, is not good enough to build a team exclusively from within (perhaps noone is)

The minute Cutch gets traded, reset the countdown to the championships clock that Coonelly keeps promising is on the horizon to at least 2017. If things break just right.

RJR

[bradlej31]

The fact that Pirate fans discuss such a thing and are ok with it tells anyone objective everything they need to know about how numb we have become to the cycle of losing and how many have bought into the propaganda that the Pirates cannot spend more than they currently are and remain viable.

If the Pirates end up trading Cutch it will be because:

1. The owner is unwilling to fund the team sufficiently to compete

2. The GM, working under these constraints, is not good enough to build a team exclusively from within (perhaps noone is)

The minute Cutch gets traded, reset the countdown to the championships clock that Coonelly keeps promising is on the horizon to at least 2017. If things break just right.

RJR

.....then by your argument the Twins must be championship caliber team now that they've signed Mauer long term and the Rays must be bottom dwellers because they let Crawford go.  

[ECBucs]

would what the Nats traded for Gio Gonzalez be enough?

I would say no.

I do think that NH's hands may be tied by Nutting and Coonley.

After last year and the fan turnout NH should have been able to make argument that he could get the team to 500 record in 2012 and not hurt future development of team.

If he made that argument, he either lost it, or has shown he isn't a good enough gm to lead the Pirates to being a regular contender.

[RJReynolds]

The fact that Pirate fans discuss such a thing and are ok with it tells anyone objective everything they need to know about how numb we have become to the cycle of losing and how many have bought into the propaganda that the Pirates cannot spend more than they currently are and remain viable.

If the Pirates end up trading Cutch it will be because:

1. The owner is unwilling to fund the team sufficiently to compete

2. The GM, working under these constraints, is not good enough to build a team exclusively from within (perhaps noone is)

The minute Cutch gets traded, reset the countdown to the championships clock that Coonelly keeps promising is on the horizon to at least 2017. If things break just right.

RJR

.....then by your argument the Twins must be championship caliber team now that they've signed Mauer long term and the Rays must be bottom dwellers because they let Crawford go.  

Right. Because that is exactly what I said. Way to take a point to the extreme and gloss over what I actually wrote.

Oh, and by the way, since signing Mauer to that contract, the Twins have made it to the post season twice. So....

Oh yeah...and the Rays will be paying 7 different players $4.35 million or more in 2012. And none of the seven are as horrific at playing baseball as are Barmes and Barajas, two of the four Pirates being paid $4 million or more this year.Their payroll is likely to be in the $65 million range. So...
RJR

[Possum]

Geesh!  This thread is being hijacked right from the first reply.  I think enough has been said about how "cheap", "underfunded" to name a few things that the Nuttings and the Buccos are. 

The OP asked a simple question about who you might think would "blow away" the Buccos in a McCutchen trade.  Please keep this thread on topic or it will be locked.

[gamecckfn]

Right. Because that is exactly what I said. Way to take a point to the extreme and gloss over what I actually wrote.

Oh, and by the way, since signing Mauer to that contract, the Twins have made it to the post season twice. So....

Oh yeah...and the Rays will be paying 7 different players $4.35 million or more in 2012. And none of the seven are as horrific at playing baseball as are Barmes and Barajas, two of the four Pirates being paid $4 million or more this year.Their payroll is likely to be in the $65 million range. So...
RJR

No they haven't. 

[gamecckfn]

Now that Fielder has signed ,The american league is stacked with sluggers .If the pirates cant resign him what do you think Mccutchen is worth and who do you think will blow away the pirates with a deal?

Depends.  I would not really even consider trading him right now unless someone is going to give us two young AS caliber position players.  No point otherwise.

I would want at least the same later on, or three top level prospects.  I do not see the point of trading him until 2014 at the earliest.  And if the team is decent, I might never want to.

[RJReynolds]

Right. Because that is exactly what I said. Way to take a point to the extreme and gloss over what I actually wrote.

Oh, and by the way, since signing Mauer to that contract, the Twins have made it to the post season twice. So....

Oh yeah...and the Rays will be paying 7 different players $4.35 million or more in 2012. And none of the seven are as horrific at playing baseball as are Barmes and Barajas, two of the four Pirates being paid $4 million or more this year.Their payroll is likely to be in the $65 million range. So...
RJR

No they haven't. 

4 years $33 million 2007-2010.

So as not to hijack the thread, the original question is who would be interested in offering a king's ransom for Cutch. My answer is the first GM to throw a 2008 BA Prospect Handbook in NH's face.

RJR

[ECBucs]

The Nats want a center fielder and from them for Cutch I would want:

Jordan Zimmerman
Matt Purke
Rendon (as player to be named later)

I'd even give the Nats Correia.

[RJReynolds]

And my apologies for hijacking. This topic just really burns my britches as does the apathy with which smart Pirate fans react to it.

RJR

[bradlej31]

Right. Because that is exactly what I said. Way to take a point to the extreme and gloss over what I actually wrote.

Oh, and by the way, since signing Mauer to that contract, the Twins have made it to the post season twice. So....

Oh yeah...and the Rays will be paying 7 different players $4.35 million or more in 2012. And none of the seven are as horrific at playing baseball as are Barmes and Barajas, two of the four Pirates being paid $4 million or more this year.Their payroll is likely to be in the $65 million range. So...
RJR

No they haven't. 

4 years $33 million 2007-2010.

So as not to hijack the thread, the original question is who would be interested in offering a king's ransom for Cutch. My answer is the first GM to throw a 2008 BA Prospect Handbook in NH's face.

RJR

That covered his arb years... it wasn't an extension.   

[bradlej31]

Sorry Possum.  

Cutch is probably a 5 WAR player for each of the next 4 years.   So 20 WAR.   Using $5M per WAR that equals $100M of value.   Subtracting the approximately $25M he'll make over the next 4 years that gives about $75M of "value".

Victor Wang's analysis says:

Top 10 hitting prospects   $36.5M
Top 11-25 hitters                   $25.1
Top 26-50 hitters                   $23.4
Top 51-75 hitters                   $14.2
Top 76-100 hitters           $12.5
Top 10 pitching prospects   $15.2
Top 11-25 pitchers           $15.9
Top 26-50 pitchers           $15.9
Top 51-75 pitchers           $12.1
Top 76-100 pitchers           $9.8

So using our own prospects we'd have to give up both Cole and Taillon (Top 10 pitchers) plus Bell (Top 25 hitter) and still need to throw in a Marte (Top 50 or 75 hitter).  

So $15.2 + $15.2 + $25.1 + $23.1 = $78.6 ....which would be a little over $75M.  

Realistically no one is matching the player's "value" these days so it might only need to be $60M worth of prospect value in return.

[dirtyfrank]

4 years $33 million 2007-2010.

So as not to hijack the thread, the original question is who would be interested in offering a king's ransom for Cutch. My answer is the first GM to throw a 2008 BA Prospect Handbook in NH's face.

RJR

I think the "big contract" that was mentioned was the 8 year/$184 million that he signed in 2010 and took effect last season.

Slightly bigger than 4/$33

[RJReynolds]

4 years $33 million 2007-2010.

So as not to hijack the thread, the original question is who would be interested in offering a king's ransom for Cutch. My answer is the first GM to throw a 2008 BA Prospect Handbook in NH's face.

RJR

I think the "big contract" that was mentioned was the 8 year/$184 million that he signed in 2010 and took effect last season.

Slightly bigger than 4/$33

Would like to see the Pirates buy out Cutch's arb years at a minimum. Like the Twins did with Mauer. No need for a massive 8 year extension on top of it just yet. But buying out the arb years would be a good place to start.

RJR