Neil Huntington - Bad for Bucs or just mis-cast

[bobster]

You can't hit on every trade or even most trades, but there seems to be something they were missing in how they evaluated young MLB position players (LaRoche, Moss, Milledge, Clement, Bowker)--they've yet to hit on one.  But perhaps that's why there were significant changes made this offseason to the major league scouting staff.

IMO, they didn't really miss on those players as much as they just took a flyer on a bunch of AAAA guys who didn't work out. I doubt that the FO was too surprised. None of them looked to be sure things even when they were obtained.

[Cutch is a Boss]

Plan = A
Execution = incomplete

At this point I think it's fair to start feeling a little uneasy that the "plan" has yet to yield huge results.  However, I also think it's unfair to start grading his execution until after we see what happens in 2012.  This is the year I would expect all the ground work NH has laid to start paying off.  I wouldn't be surprised if we witness significant strides by the system this year at both the minor & major league levels.  It's time for the rubber to hit the road.

[RJReynolds]

Plan = A
Execution = incomplete

At this point I think it's fair to start feeling a little uneasy that the "plan" has yet to yield huge results.  However, I also think it's unfair to start grading his execution until after we see what happens in 2012.  This is the year I would expect all the ground work NH has laid to start paying off.  I wouldn't be surprised if we witness significant strides by the system this year at both the minor & major league levels.  It's time for the rubber to hit the road.

Not that I tremendously disagree with you...I just remember hearing this same exact thing last year. I also think I will hear it next year. The difference between you and I is that I was saying this to begin the 2010 season. By this point, I have pretty much had it.

RJR

[Rutang]

He's hit on trades and missed on some trades...about what you expect.  

He will be judged (and should be, in my opinion) on how his drafts go.  If the Pirates are going to suceed, they need to get All-Star caliber guys when they pick in the top 5.  Alvarez and Sanchez need to step forward and be those guys.  The first rounders must produce.  By 2012, we thought Pedro would be settling in as a 30HR guy, and Sanchez would be ready to take over in June.  Today, we hope Alvarez can contribute something, and Sanchez hasn't been able to produce in AA. 

[Rutang]

He's hit on trades and missed on some trades...about what you expect.  

He will be judged (and should be, in my opinion) on how his drafts go.  If the Pirates are going to suceed, they need to get All-Star caliber guys when they pick in the top 5.  Alvarez and Sanchez need to step forward and be those guys.  The first rounders must produce.  By 2012, we thought Pedro would be settling in as a 30HR guy, and Sanchez would be ready to take over in June.  Today, we hope Alvarez can contribute something, and Sanchez hasn't been able to produce in AA. 

In a small market, if your GM is just okay, you can't win. 

[The Moose]

If you think NH isn't good enough, whom do you have in mind to replace him?

I'm holding out hope for Paul DePodesta.  I think he got a raw deal in LA.

[Cutch is a Boss]

Plan = A
Execution = incomplete

At this point I think it's fair to start feeling a little uneasy that the "plan" has yet to yield huge results.  However, I also think it's unfair to start grading his execution until after we see what happens in 2012.  This is the year I would expect all the ground work NH has laid to start paying off.  I wouldn't be surprised if we witness significant strides by the system this year at both the minor & major league levels.  It's time for the rubber to hit the road.

I think it's hard to judge the Cain/ZVR batch of HS arms before they play 3 years of minor league ball.  That's where I expect big gains to come in the minors, some of those HS arms will hopefully start to establish themselves as top 100 prospect types.  At the major league level, expecting results in 2010 on a budget is asking way, way too much.  No GM could've produced with those groceries.  The way they're building wolnt yield instant results.  We had a taste with the run into late July last year, I expect them to take another step in 2012.  Pedro will make a big difference.
Not that I tremendously disagree with you...I just remember hearing this same exact thing last year. I also think I will hear it next year. The difference between you and I is that I was saying this to begin the 2010 season. By this point, I have pretty much had it.

RJR

[pghpaulatl]

I think NH has done a good not great job and where he gets the most grief on this board and elsewhere is in the Bay trade and other than that trade many feel he's done a pretty good job.

If we look back on that trade it was rumored heavily that NH had a trade with Cleveland for Lee, Shoppach and a decent outfielder whose name escapes me, but FC shot it down.
I say if that trade was made the Bucs are way ahead of where we are and NH praises are being sung by all on this board and elsewhere.

[ECBucs]

at the time I was very much against trading for Cliff Lee.

He was coming off season where he went 5-8 with ERA of 6, the year before it was around 4.40. 

IMO, he came out of blue to win over 20.  In hindsight that would have been great trade for Bucs but at the time it would have been selling Bay at a discount.  I don't think either NH or the Indians expected Lee to turn into a great pitcher.

[JayDub]

He was underqualified when hired and his performance has confirmed that.  He became fixated on a flawed strategy of building the minor league system through quantity.  He neglected his responsibility to the major league roster during the process.

Attempting to develop hordes of fringe prospects at the same time simply cannot be done effectively.  The attrition cost will be too high due to roster limitations and other constraints. 

He should have been focused much more on quality during the roster turnover and drafts.  Picking up a few overslots later in the drafts remains a great way of closing the talent gap with some of the richer teams but it shouldn't have been done at the expense of quality.   

His failure to lock up McCutchen to an extended contract also raises questions to me about his ability to develop the ML roster.  I like the guy personally, I just think there are too many challenges for him to overcome.

[The Moose]

I think NH has done a good not great job and where he gets the most grief on this board and elsewhere is in the Bay trade and other than that trade many feel he's done a pretty good job.

If we look back on that trade it was rumored heavily that NH had a trade with Cleveland for Lee, Shoppach and a decent outfielder whose name escapes me, but FC shot it down.
I say if that trade was made the Bucs are way ahead of where we are and NH praises are being sung by all on this board and elsewhere.

The outfielder was Franklin Gutierrez.  Who Cleveland eventualy traded to Seattle, as part of a 3-team deal with the Indians, M's, and Mets.

There was also a 4th player involved in that deal, on the Indians side.  A pitcher.  Plus, the Pirates were to include Ronny Paulino.

So, the deal was Bay and Paulino for C Lee, Gutierrez, Shoppach, and another pitcher.  Mark Shapiro offered Jeremy Sowers as the pitcher.  Huntington accepted, incumbent on Coonelly's approval.  Huntington pitched the trade to Coonelly.  Coonelly instructed Huntington to ask for Aaron Laffey, instead of Sowers.  Which Huntington did.  Shapiro refused to include Laffey, and the deal died.

That all took place at the 2007 Winter Meetings.  According to rumor, at any rate.

So, indeed, you can blame Coonelly for C Lee never becoming a Pirate.  Or for Franklin Gutierrez never becoming a Pirate either, for that matter.