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by-the-Sea
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« on: January 21, 2012, 01:39:02 PM » |
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I thought it would be interesting to know if the "educated" on this board really considered NH a bad baseball guy (ala Littlefield) or perhaps just mis-cast.
It appears commonly agreed that NH has raised the minor league system into something that resembles hope. Simultaniously, we are more than a few years down the path and have seen little success at the ML level (aside from 1st half hope last year that appeared statistically unsustainable) - plus this off season's moves look like a punt for 2012. All of this reflects directly on NH.
So - question is: Is NH just bad at this? Or is he just over his head (i.e., perfectly cut out for a secondary role in team building, but just not cut out to be the main guy)?
Thoughts?
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Dogknot3
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 01:44:12 PM » |
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I think Huntington realizes that the long term is better than the short term. You have to build the foundation first. When the minors are ready to start replacing guys at the major league level, you will see the results. It just takes time starting from scratch.
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thegreatchris
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 01:57:35 PM » |
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I'm beginning to think that with the resources at his disposal, it would take a ton of luck for anyone to succeed as a Pirates GM. NH seems to have a decent approach to team building, though his talent evaluation leaves a bit to be desired...
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magnumo
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 02:35:24 PM » |
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My view in a nutshell: NH is not good enough.
- He has a good plan and has made some good moves..... but too many bad ones, especially in trades and FA signings. Too many of his draft choices have not performed up to expectations.
- No GM gets everything right. But in order to be successful (that is, to build a competitive team), the GM of a small-market, small-revenue team needs to make a high percentage of good moves and make few mistakes. Huntington has made too many mistakes.
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Dogknot3
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 02:40:59 PM » |
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I think he has drafted very well and has made some pretty good trades considering what he had to deal. I muist have missed all of these bad moves that outweigh the good ones.
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blackmax
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 02:48:17 PM » |
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If you think NH isn't good enough, whom do you have in mind to replace him?
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RJReynolds
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 03:08:19 PM » |
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If you think NH isn't good enough, whom do you have in mind to replace him?
The rotting corpse of Syd Thrift could easily out-GM NH. There is a reason he was passed over and demoted in the Cleveland organization just before we got him. Philosophy = terrific Execution = piss poor RJR |
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RJReynolds
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 03:14:58 PM » |
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I think he has drafted very well and has made some pretty good trades considering what he had to deal. I muist have missed all of these bad moves that outweigh the good ones.
He has drafted pretty well with the high first round picks he has been given (except Tony Sanchez). He has also done a great job of signing HS arms as well as getting Bell into the fold. All good work on his part. Problem is that the HS arms he signed have been pretty bad thus far, so that cuts into the "good drafter" theory a bit...as does overdraft Sanchez. As for the bad moves...well...I guess you must have missed them. Trade mistakes and mistakes in appropriating the limited resources he is given. RJR |
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JollyRoger
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 03:33:33 PM » |
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I would rate NH average or slightly above average.
Let's face it; if you are given a ML budget of 40-50 million to operate on when the ML average is over 80 million then you have virtually no room for error. You can't have misses. No GM; I don't care what reputation they have is going to hit a home run on 90% of their personnel moves. Epstein, Daniels etc would not be able to turn the Pirates around. You must be given the resources.
I agree that NH has made some horrific trades; but I do not place the major blame at his feet.
A fish rots from the head down.
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Dogknot3
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 03:50:09 PM » |
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I think he has drafted very well and has made some pretty good trades considering what he had to deal. I muist have missed all of these bad moves that outweigh the good ones.
As for the bad moves...well...I guess you must have missed them. Trade mistakes and mistakes in appropriating the limited resources he is given. RJR Are you just referring to the Bay trade? Yeah, that was bad. The Nady, McLouth, Dotel, Morgan, Wilson, Snell trades were all pretty good. Huntington was also able to unload Crosby, Church, and Lopez too. There is still time for the Sanchez trade to work out too. I am sure I am missing a few, but his trades have been pretty good. He didn't trade away any super stars or prospects. |
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bobster
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 04:09:50 PM » |
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Good at building up a minor league system. Poor so far as the GM of a MLB team. He can't just sit back and wait for a team full of prospects to make it big. Some will pan out. Some won't. He needs to supplement the ML roster with a few legitimately productive players.
A lot was written last year at the midway point when the team was competitive. The players noted how different it was to play like that. It was a great learning experience for developing young players, as opposed to consistently being fodder for the other teams. But they quickly feil back to their losing ways, and then some. Thus, there is value to making significant improvements at the ML level while still waiting for the prospects to develop, both in the minors (Tailon, Cole, etc) and at the ML level (Alvarez, Morton, etc). But NH fails to do this. The philosophy seems to be "We aren't ready yet, so why waste the effort to improve through ML acquisitions."
What we don't know is the reason behind this approach. Does NH have good ideas for the ML club but not the financial backing of the owner? Would he have the backing but is reluctant to suggest expensive moves? Is he at a comfort level as a minor league builder and afraid to risk failure if he assembles a team that would be expected to do much better at the ML level? We can only speculate. It's fair to say there has been little improvement at the ML level under NH except for half a season last year which was followed by a disastrous second half. Maybe they could do better with another GM. Or maybe it all goes back to ownership to the extent that no GM will be successful. We just don't know.
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Dogknot3
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 04:39:35 PM » |
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I ttink when you concentrate on the minor leagues you do have to wait for those players to develop. Yeah, it is a risk but small market teams kind of have to do that.
I likede the trades at the deadline last year. If Lee and Ludwick didn't get hurt, who knows how the season would have ended. They didn't trade away the farm to get those guys. If they would have, where would the Pirates be today?
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markson33
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2012, 05:07:46 PM » |
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I think NH is ok. He clearly screwed up the bay trade, although I don't know how much of that was because of pressure from Coonley. I have no problem with the lack of trades and free agent acquisitions - they just aren't ready for that.
Clearly they are trying to build almost exclusively from within. The problem that some have with this current strategy is that it is slow. For us as fans it is boring and depressing, but in the long term it is probably the best way to build a consistently good team.
Given the parameters that the Pirates GM is working in, I wouldn't expect anybody to do better than NH.
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Possum
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2012, 05:33:03 PM » |
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Looking for another GM I would suggest former Bucco and "All-World" shortstop Abraham Nunez aka "Noonie"! Why not he was better than Jack Wilson so he can also be better than Neal!  |
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Beat 'em Bucs in 2012 Possum__________  Rod Barajas - Baseball's version of a Three Toed Sloth |
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TNbucs
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 06:04:08 PM » |
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For the most part, I like Huntington's plan--his taking advantage of the draft and increased Latin America spending (including the big contract given to Heredia) may have contributed to the new CBA rules. He'll have to adjust now to the new rules, but I think he had the old system figured out as well as anyone.
That said, the execution hasn't been ideal. You can't hit on every trade or even most trades, but there seems to be something they were missing in how they evaluated young MLB position players (LaRoche, Moss, Milledge, Clement, Bowker)--they've yet to hit on one. But perhaps that's why there were significant changes made this offseason to the major league scouting staff.
What I like most about Huntington is that he seems to be sincerely interested in analyzing and learning from his mistakes. I think the organizational changes this offseason reflect that. The key will be if they were right on the HS arms they drafted, and if those decisions look bad a couple of years from now (when we should know about those arms), then I don't think they'll have the chance to learn from those mistakes.
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