Looks Like It's Happening - Maholm to the Cubs

[The Moose]

They spent $4.5 million of Paul's $9 million option on Bedard. Are they going to use the other $4.5 million on another starter? I hope so.

RJR

You and me both, Shoes.

[dave3BA]

So is he junk or an asset?

Good question.  I believe he's junk.  Maybe there was a GM in July who didn't, I don't know.  Plenty of people here were willing to pay the $9.75M for next year.  I don't care what you get for him, as long as it maximizes your future.  Now we have nothing.  I'd rather have the next Franquelis "White Flag" Osoria than nothing.

You can argue they shouldn't have traded him at the deadline.  I said it at the time, we should have gotten the best deal we could.  It's amazing to me that more people aren't calling Huntington on this, especially after he made the same mistake with Duke.  I understand good prospects probably weren't coming our way.  But what do we have in return now, and what did we get from Maholm after the deadline?

It's probably because most people thought he was needed to compete and most believed we would continue to do so. You are one of only a handful that advocated trading him. I think the majority wanted him kept and thought he was necessary to continue competing. Not that I would put a lot of people on the board above playing the hindsight game, I think most would be hypocritical if they did. Persoanally, I'm still fine with Neil not trading him.

I was one who would've been ok with the option. Clearly, Neil has a better idea of the market than I. It turns out he was right for declining every single one of them, though I still wish he'd have picked up Doumit's.

I agree on Doumit.  The Maholm thing perplexes me.  We saw this offseason that pitchers much better than Maholm can be acquired for a lesser cost.  This isn't just happening this offseason, it happens every offseason.  The Pirates continue to rely on pitchers like Maholm to anchor the rotation.  Maholm is not a good pitcher.  At his best, he's about average.  Those aren't players you should try to hold onto to make a run at the playoffs.  I feel like people don't realize that around here.  Maholm is not going to make or break you going into the playoffs.

[ECBucs]

So is he junk or an asset?

Good question.  I believe he's junk.  Maybe there was a GM in July who didn't, I don't know.  Plenty of people here were willing to pay the $9.75M for next year.  I don't care what you get for him, as long as it maximizes your future.  Now we have nothing.  I'd rather have the next Franquelis "White Flag" Osoria than nothing.

You can argue they shouldn't have traded him at the deadline.  I said it at the time, we should have gotten the best deal we could.  It's amazing to me that more people aren't calling Huntington on this, especially after he made the same mistake with Duke.  I understand good prospects probably weren't coming our way.  But what do we have in return now, and what did we get from Maholm after the deadline?

It's probably because most people thought he was needed to compete and most believed we would continue to do so. You are one of only a handful that advocated trading him. I think the majority wanted him kept and thought he was necessary to continue competing. Not that I would put a lot of people on the board above playing the hindsight game, I think most would be hypocritical if they did. Persoanally, I'm still fine with Neil not trading him.

I was one who would've been ok with the option. Clearly, Neil has a better idea of the market than I. It turns out he was right for declining every single one of them, though I still wish he'd have picked up Doumit's.

I agree on Doumit.  The Maholm thing perplexes me.  We saw this offseason that pitchers much better than Maholm can be acquired for a lesser cost.  This isn't just happening this offseason, it happens every offseason.  The Pirates continue to rely on pitchers like Maholm to anchor the rotation.  Maholm is not a good pitcher.  At his best, he's about average.  Those aren't players you should try to hold onto to make a run at the playoffs.  I feel like people don't realize that around here.  Maholm is not going to make or break you going into the playoffs.

I think people do realize that Maholm is not that kind of pitcher, but he is better than Kevin Correia.  That is my main issue, the players brought in at the major league level are medicore.  I wouldn't have a problem if NH was bringing in good players for the major league club but Barmes, Barajas and Kevin Correia are roster fillers, not players that help a team get into the playoffs either.  There just has been a of treading water at the major league level while minors have been improved.

[gamecckfn]

So is he junk or an asset?

Good question.  I believe he's junk.  Maybe there was a GM in July who didn't, I don't know.  Plenty of people here were willing to pay the $9.75M for next year.  I don't care what you get for him, as long as it maximizes your future.  Now we have nothing.  I'd rather have the next Franquelis "White Flag" Osoria than nothing.

You can argue they shouldn't have traded him at the deadline.  I said it at the time, we should have gotten the best deal we could.  It's amazing to me that more people aren't calling Huntington on this, especially after he made the same mistake with Duke.  I understand good prospects probably weren't coming our way.  But what do we have in return now, and what did we get from Maholm after the deadline?

It's probably because most people thought he was needed to compete and most believed we would continue to do so. You are one of only a handful that advocated trading him. I think the majority wanted him kept and thought he was necessary to continue competing. Not that I would put a lot of people on the board above playing the hindsight game, I think most would be hypocritical if they did. Persoanally, I'm still fine with Neil not trading him.

I was one who would've been ok with the option. Clearly, Neil has a better idea of the market than I. It turns out he was right for declining every single one of them, though I still wish he'd have picked up Doumit's.

I don't know about Doumit's.  Would you really want to pay $16 million for what would likely be only one year of ABs?

[Pirates2014Champ]

They spent $4.5 million of Paul's $9 million option on Bedard. Are they going to use the other $4.5 million on another starter? I hope so.

RJR

You and me both, Shoes.

They better! Even if that means finding a way to sign Edwin Jackson and then trading away GFJ or Karstens to keep up with the other $4.5 million.

[steve19981]

So is he junk or an asset?

Good question.  I believe he's junk.  Maybe there was a GM in July who didn't, I don't know.  Plenty of people here were willing to pay the $9.75M for next year.  I don't care what you get for him, as long as it maximizes your future.  Now we have nothing.  I'd rather have the next Franquelis "White Flag" Osoria than nothing.

You can argue they shouldn't have traded him at the deadline.  I said it at the time, we should have gotten the best deal we could.  It's amazing to me that more people aren't calling Huntington on this, especially after he made the same mistake with Duke.  I understand good prospects probably weren't coming our way.  But what do we have in return now, and what did we get from Maholm after the deadline?

It's probably because most people thought he was needed to compete and most believed we would continue to do so. You are one of only a handful that advocated trading him. I think the majority wanted him kept and thought he was necessary to continue competing. Not that I would put a lot of people on the board above playing the hindsight game, I think most would be hypocritical if they did. Persoanally, I'm still fine with Neil not trading him.

I was one who would've been ok with the option. Clearly, Neil has a better idea of the market than I. It turns out he was right for declining every single one of them, though I still wish he'd have picked up Doumit's.

I don't know about Doumit's.  Would you really want to pay $16 million for what would likely be only one year of ABs?

Nevermind, I thought the option was for less than that and that he got more from the Twins. I guess that turned out ok too.

[Gnats Eyelash]

This argument about whether or not Maholm was worth 9.75 mil by picking up his option is a bunch of hooey.

The Pirates could have easily started negotiations on a cheaper contract at any point by buying out the option and negotiating with him on a fair market longer term deal.  Quite frankly, both the Pirates and Maholm knew he would most likely never get 9.75 mil from Pittsburgh when he signed the deal.

Years ago, I think the Pirates had an ungodly option number on Jeff Suppan.  I think he signed a 1 mil contract with an 8 mil option.  Both sides had to know that would never come into play.  You would never say the Pirates saved money by dumping Suppan at the deadline and replacing him with someone cheaper the next year because the 8 mil was never guaranteed and only there in case Suppan became Cy Young.

The option is basically there to protect the club in case the player exceeds expectations, almost like inviting a player to spring training without giving him a roster spot.

It would be interesting to hear if either Maholm or Doumit would have wanted to come back to Pittsburgh.  My guess is Maholm may have been open to it, but Doumit wanted to move on.   

[gamecckfn]

This argument about whether or not Maholm was worth 9.75 mil by picking up his option is a bunch of hooey.

The Pirates could have easily started negotiations on a cheaper contract at any point by buying out the option and negotiating with him on a fair market longer term deal.  Quite frankly, both the Pirates and Maholm knew he would most likely never get 9.75 mil from Pittsburgh when he signed the deal.

Years ago, I think the Pirates had an ungodly option number on Jeff Suppan.  I think he signed a 1 mil contract with an 8 mil option.  Both sides had to know that would never come into play.  You would never say the Pirates saved money by dumping Suppan at the deadline and replacing him with someone cheaper the next year because the 8 mil was never guaranteed and only there in case Suppan became Cy Young.

The option is basically there to protect the club in case the player exceeds expectations, almost like inviting a player to spring training without giving him a roster spot.

It would be interesting to hear if either Maholm or Doumit would have wanted to come back to Pittsburgh.  My guess is Maholm may have been open to it, but Doumit wanted to move on.   

They tried that with Sanchez and Wilson.  We saw how that worked out.

[5-ish Finkle]

watch Maholm go 5-0 with a 0.50 ERA against us this year  

Bank on that.

He's mediocre and lefthanded.  That's one of the Pirates' chiefest, but certainly not only, forms of Kryptonite for the last decade.