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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Carlos Santana (Read 1950 times)
steve 49
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #45 - Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:12pm
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WildwoodDave 2 wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:52am:
Babe Adams wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:41am:
He'll be 37 on April 8. He's batted .204 in the 2020s, including .183 in the second half last year.


without the shift, I think he should do better




I read where teams shifted against him something like 98% of the time. I agree with you that he should be a big beneficiary of the new rule.
  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #46 - Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:30pm
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steve 49 wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:12pm:
WildwoodDave 2 wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:52am:
Babe Adams wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:41am:
He'll be 37 on April 8. He's batted .204 in the 2020s, including .183 in the second half last year.


without the shift, I think he should do better




I read where teams shifted against him something like 98% of the time. I agree with you that he should be a big beneficiary of the new rule.


I did an unscientific estimate on this.  Lets say without the shift he would have gotten 13 more hits last year which make his total hits 100.  That raises his average to 232. 

23 more hits raises his average to 255.   

I don't know if either of those number of additional hits are realistic. 

I wonder what advanced analytics show the value of shifts to be? An additional 23 hits seems to be too many to me. The averages were calculated using the 431 at bats he had in 2022.   

taking away his homers he hit 165 with 68 hits in 412 at bats. he struck out 88 times so he had 343 times where he hit the ball.
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:51pm by Ecbucs »  
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Bobster
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #47 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:44am
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Ecbucs wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:30pm:
steve 49 wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:12pm:
WildwoodDave 2 wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:52am:
Babe Adams wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:41am:
He'll be 37 on April 8. He's batted .204 in the 2020s, including .183 in the second half last year.


without the shift, I think he should do better




I read where teams shifted against him something like 98% of the time. I agree with you that he should be a big beneficiary of the new rule.


I did an unscientific estimate on this.  Lets say without the shift he would have gotten 13 more hits last year which make his total hits 100.  That raises his average to 232. 

23 more hits raises his average to 255.   

I don't know if either of those number of additional hits are realistic. 

I wonder what advanced analytics show the value of shifts to be? An additional 23 hits seems to be too many to me. The averages were calculated using the 431 at bats he had in 2022.   

taking away his homers he hit 165 with 68 hits in 412 at bats. he struck out 88 times so he had 343 times where he hit the ball.

All MLB hitters stand to benefit from the elimination of the shift. So it's unlikely there will be an overall benefit to any team. The Pirates could see a significant improvement in team BA but still be last in the NL in team BA as all the other teams will also improve.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #48 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 11:34am
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Bobster wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:44am:
Ecbucs wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:30pm:
steve 49 wrote on Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:12pm:
WildwoodDave 2 wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:52am:
Babe Adams wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 7:41am:
He'll be 37 on April 8. He's batted .204 in the 2020s, including .183 in the second half last year.


without the shift, I think he should do better




I read where teams shifted against him something like 98% of the time. I agree with you that he should be a big beneficiary of the new rule.


I did an unscientific estimate on this.  Lets say without the shift he would have gotten 13 more hits last year which make his total hits 100.  That raises his average to 232. 

23 more hits raises his average to 255.   

I don't know if either of those number of additional hits are realistic. 

I wonder what advanced analytics show the value of shifts to be? An additional 23 hits seems to be too many to me. The averages were calculated using the 431 at bats he had in 2022.   

taking away his homers he hit 165 with 68 hits in 412 at bats. he struck out 88 times so he had 343 times where he hit the ball.

All MLB hitters stand to benefit from the elimination of the shift. So it's unlikely there will be an overall benefit to any team. The Pirates could see a significant improvement in team BA but still be last in the NL in team BA as all the other teams will also improve. 


It's so dumb and goes to counter to what they were trying to do.  It's just going to make players swing for the fences even more.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #49 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 12:04pm
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I'm fine with that.
  

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Surgnbuck
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #50 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 12:18pm
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It's interesting, the Pirates have officially announced him, and yet still haven't made a corresponding move to dump someone from the 40. I guess maybe teams have a certain amount of time, like 24 hours or so? I'm guessing if they didn't dump someone right away, it speaks to me that they have a trade in the works.
  

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Surgnbuck
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #51 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 12:23pm
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GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 12:04pm:
I'm fine with that.

You mean as far as players swinging for the fences? I don't think that was ever going to change, it was the rockets they were hitting that went to a guy playing mid right field throwing them out at first I thought was the purpose of eliminating the shifts.

I'm against the whole rule, because I always felt MLB though slow to change, does indeed change, to defeat the newest fangled wizardry from the computer banks. But it's here, so I'll hope that somehow, it benefits teams with athletic infields while helping the general populace get a base hit.

I still think we'll see a lot of left fielders doing what the 3B/SS were doing. I wonder which team is going to go heavy that route first?
  

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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #52 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 1:21pm
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Yeah.  I'm fine with players "going for it."  Always have been.  Always will be; whether it be on offense or defense.

"Finesse" has its place.  I get it.

I just prefer when people max out; accepting the associated risk of failing.

In MLB, team brass must be fine with it, too.  Otherwise, players wouldn't do it.
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #53 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:06pm
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GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 1:21pm:
Yeah.  I'm fine with players "going for it."  Always have been.  Always will be; whether it be on offense or defense.

"Finesse" has its place.  I get it.

I just prefer when people max out; accepting the associated risk of failing.

In MLB, team brass must be fine with it, too.  Otherwise, players wouldn't do it.


Their stated goal though was to have more baserunning and balls in play, etc.  Adding strategy would make the game more interesting IMO, not making it illegal.
  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #54 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:29pm
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The Pirates announced Wednesday that they’ve designated first baseman Lewin Diaz for assignment   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/pirates-dfa-lewin-diaz.html
  
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MaineBucs
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #55 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 3:17pm
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This seems like an appropriate move when you have now added 2 veteran first baseman to the roster, and with Diaz having no recent track record of success offensively.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #56 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 3:51pm
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SammyKhalifa wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:06pm:
GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 1:21pm:
Yeah.  I'm fine with players "going for it."  Always have been.  Always will be; whether it be on offense or defense.

"Finesse" has its place.  I get it.

I just prefer when people max out; accepting the associated risk of failing.

In MLB, team brass must be fine with it, too.  Otherwise, players wouldn't do it.


Their stated goal though was to have more baserunning and balls in play, etc.  Adding strategy would make the game more interesting IMO, not making it illegal. 


I haven't commented on the matter of "Shift/Ban Shifts."  I commented on the opinion on a result.

I'm not sure where I stand on that issue, so I stay silent.  I see the merits of proponents and opponents.

I'm also not sure how much shifts or no shifts even matter. It's always the matter of making contact.....and, if a batter does- hitting it where they aint.


  

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Serious Baseball.
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Surgnbuck
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #57 - Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:39pm
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Ecbucs wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:29pm:
The Pirates announced Wednesday that they’ve designated first baseman Lewin Diaz for assignment   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/pirates-dfa-lewin-diaz.html

I wonder what goes through a players mind when this stuff happens. I guess at this point, it's not an uncommon occurrence for those AAAA types.
  

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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #58 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:24am
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:39pm:
Ecbucs wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:29pm:
The Pirates announced Wednesday that they’ve designated first baseman Lewin Diaz for assignment   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/pirates-dfa-lewin-diaz.html

I wonder what goes through a players mind when this stuff happens. I guess at this point, it's not an uncommon occurrence for those AAAA types.

It's gotta be disappointing for a fringe player thinking he might get a chance to make an MLB club. But I'm sure he saw the handwriting on the wall when Santana was signed after Choi was already acquired. But if another team doesn't claim him, Diaz will likely end up at Indy knowing neither Santana not Choi will Pirates more than 1 year if that. Diaz needs to put up big numbers in AAA for a shot at an MLB club or else get on with his life's work.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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UtahPirate
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #59 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 11:22am
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Bobster wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:24am:
Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 4:39pm:
Ecbucs wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 2:29pm:
The Pirates announced Wednesday that they’ve designated first baseman Lewin Diaz for assignment   https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/pirates-dfa-lewin-diaz.html

I wonder what goes through a players mind when this stuff happens. I guess at this point, it's not an uncommon occurrence for those AAAA types.


It's gotta be disappointing for a fringe player thinking he might get a chance to make an MLB club. But I'm sure he saw the handwriting on the wall when Santana was signed after Choi was already acquired. But if another team doesn't claim him, Diaz will likely end up at Indy knowing neither Santana not Choi will Pirates more than 1 year if that. Diaz needs to put up big numbers in AAA for a shot at an MLB club or else get on with his life's work.   


We acquired Diaz knowing we were close to getting Santana. I assume that we want him in the organization and would have let him know that. What I always wonder is how well organizations communicate their intentions to players.

He has gone up and down from AAA to MLB for quite a few years and given the fact he had zero options left and was barely hanging on to the Marlins roster, he had to know there was a good chance he would hit waivers this year either with them or with someone else.
  
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