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Carlos Santana (Read 3314 times)

fjk090852-7 Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3104 Joined: Jul 3^rd, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #15 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:16am	Print Post
	This is a good addition to the young Pirates team. As some have said he will be a veteran player for the Latin players such as Cruz, Castro and others. The depth of the lineup is so much better. Let’s propose this lineup on many days: Cruz so Reynolds cf Andujar lf Choi 1b Santana DH Hayes 3b Suwinski RF Catcher. ? Bae or Castro 2b This is an interesting lineup in my opinion.


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GreenWeenie Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3864 Joined: Mar 29^th, 2020	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #16 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:28am	Print Post
	For a team that hates spending money, they spent money. I have no problem with it. He hits home runs. If my choice is to take Santana or the guys we had, I take Santana. I don't care about the money. It isn't mine. Then, we have The Cherington Factor that no one brings up, so I will now. Do we have trust in his assessment or not? I choose to give him the benefit of doubt. If he's incapable of weighing the pros and cons of this player, then what gives anyone confidence in his ability to judge any other?

	Nutting, Cherington, Shelton. Serious Baseball.
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fjk090852-7 Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3104 Joined: Jul 3^rd, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #17 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:18am	Print Post
	GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 9:28am: For a team that hates spending money, they spent money. I have no problem with it. He hits home runs. If my choice is to take Santana or the guys we had, I take Santana. I don't care about the money. It isn't mine. Then, we have The Cherington Factor that no one brings up, so I will now. Do we have trust in his assessment or not? I choose to give him the benefit of doubt. If he's incapable of weighing the pros and cons of this player, then what gives anyone confidence in his ability to judge any other? I agree with your thoughts. The Pirates will never be in play for a player like Judge. Santana is not a dumpster dive like some of the players the Pirates have signed in the past. They spent some money on Santana with the hopes he will fill a need for the upcoming season. He and Choi are both players who fill the gap this year as we wait the young prospects make their way to the major league.


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Ecbucs Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3988 Location: Alabama Joined: Jun 30^th, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #18 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 11:04am	Print Post
	It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana. He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655 Chavis against righties was 222 with 618. I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400. It just seems like settling to me. We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again).


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Speedloader88 Full Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 130 Location: Wheeling West Virginia Joined: Jul 19^th, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #19 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 12:27pm	Print Post
	Feels like a Burnitz or Lyle Overbay or even Derek Bell signing to me but whatever.


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GreenWeenie Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3864 Joined: Mar 29^th, 2020	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #20 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 1:51pm	Print Post
	Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 11:04am: It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana. He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655 Chavis against righties was 222 with 618. I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400. It just seems like settling to me. We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again). Reality is that a younger, more powerful, .250 guy does not come to the Pirates. They have other options and the price tag's even higher. Neither side would have interest. If Cherington's "off" on this evaluation, then he could be as equally off on the draft choices he's made. The difference is the cost, but the effect's the same. He wouldn't have made this deal if he didn't feel comfortable with it.

	Nutting, Cherington, Shelton. Serious Baseball.
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IABucFan Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 1678 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #21 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 3:30pm	Print Post
	Jeromy Burnitz 2.0.


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fjk090852-7 Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3104 Joined: Jul 3^rd, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #22 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 3:58pm	Print Post
	There are a lot of mixed comments regarding the Santana signing, but when former players say he has a winning attitude, and holds respect with his fellow players, he seems the perfect guy for Cruz, Andujar and others to learn from his veteran presence. When the Pirates had winning seasons, young players looked up to Clemente, Stargell and most recently A J Burnett. Winning teams need these types of players. I hope very soon they sign a starting pitcher whom the young starters can learn, from his time in the League.


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Ecbucs Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3988 Location: Alabama Joined: Jun 30^th, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #23 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:01pm	Print Post
	GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 1:51pm: Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 11:04am: It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana. He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655 Chavis against righties was 222 with 618. I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400. It just seems like settling to me. We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again). Reality is that a younger, more powerful, .250 guy does not come to the Pirates. They have other options and the price tag's even higher. Neither side would have interest. If Cherington's "off" on this evaluation, then he could be as equally off on the draft choices he's made. The difference is the cost, but the effect's the same. He wouldn't have made this deal if he didn't feel comfortable with it. at least he is making moves, that should make it easier to decide if he is David Littlefield 2.0. Still the team is going to be spending 11 million or so on first in 2023. Right now first base (other than perhaps Hayes) is going to be the team's most expensive position. I'd like to get more bang for the buck than Choi and Santana.


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WildwoodDave 2 Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 4387 Joined: Dec 17^th, 2020	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #24 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:43pm	Print Post
	Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 4:01pm: GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 1:51pm: Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 11:04am: It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana. He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655 Chavis against righties was 222 with 618. I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400. It just seems like settling to me. We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again). Reality is that a younger, more powerful, .250 guy does not come to the Pirates. They have other options and the price tag's even higher. Neither side would have interest. If Cherington's "off" on this evaluation, then he could be as equally off on the draft choices he's made. The difference is the cost, but the effect's the same. He wouldn't have made this deal if he didn't feel comfortable with it. at least he is making moves, that should make it easier to decide if he is David Littlefield 2.0. Still the team is going to be spending 11 million or so on first in 2023. Right now first base (other than perhaps Hayes) is going to be the team's most expensive position. I'd like to get more bang for the buck than Choi and Santana. I don't feel we can make any judgement until half way through the season


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GreenWeenie Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3864 Joined: Mar 29^th, 2020	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #25 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 8:50pm	Print Post
	We're able to make judgments every day. What we can't do is come to a conclusion. What's the worst that can happen? The worst is that a team that lost 100 games....Will lose 100 games. It's a one-year deal, for heaven's sake. If the team and guy does well and the unlikely event, we make the playoffs. It's most likely he stays four months. That won't cause long-term harm. If it does, we have far bigger issues. He very well could be dealt. Let's do nothing. That's worked so well over recent years.

	Nutting, Cherington, Shelton. Serious Baseball.
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SammyKhalifa Global Moderator Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3505 Joined: Jul 1^st, 2016	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #26 - Nov 26^th, 2022 at 10:00pm	Print Post
	No I genuinely didn't know how he was doing the past several years. I mean I knew him with the Indians (my nephew is a fan) but I'm sure he'll be fine.


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Surgnbuck Elite Member Online OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 8509 Location: Lower Burrell PA Joined: Mar 4^th, 2020	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #27 - Nov 27^th, 2022 at 3:58am	Print Post
	Never understand yinzer mentality. Complain when they don't spend, complain about who it's spent on when the pocket book gets crowbarred open. This isn't a dumpster dive, they paid what I'm assuming is market value. But yeah bring back cutch for sentimental reasons.

	"Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on earth." Muhammed Ali
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GreenWeenie Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 3864 Joined: Mar 29^th, 2020	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #28 - Nov 27^th, 2022 at 6:00am	Print Post
	Word, except for the "Cutch" reference. They want to bring Cutch back for BASEBALL reasons. ))))

	Nutting, Cherington, Shelton. Serious Baseball.
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Doc Elite Member Offline OnlyBucs.net Member Posts: 4598 Location: Pittsburgh Joined: May 20^th, 2018	Re: Carlos Santana Reply #29 - Nov 27^th, 2022 at 8:37am	Print Post
	I see more positives to this signing than negatives. To me, he was signed in order to be traded at the deadline. At his age, and with the team still likely two years away from competing, he wasn't brought in to fill a hole that will complete the line-up on a team looking to make the playoffs. The same can be said of Choi. Both guys are here because there's no 1Bman in the system who's quite ready. Hopefully by the end of July someone emerges, allowing BC to deal both Santana and Choi. Of course, it would help if both have good seasons up to that point. If not, signing both is still a chance worth taking.


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