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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Carlos Santana (Read 1952 times)
fjk090852-7
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #15 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 9:16am
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This is a good addition to the young Pirates team. As some have said he will be a veteran player for the Latin players such as Cruz, Castro and others. The depth of the lineup is so much better. Let’s propose this lineup on many days:
Cruz so
Reynolds cf
Andujar lf
Choi 1b
Santana DH
Hayes 3b
Suwinski RF
Catcher. ?
Bae or Castro 2b

This is an interesting lineup in my opinion.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #16 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 9:28am
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For a team that hates spending money, they spent money.  I have no problem with it.  He hits home runs.

If my choice is to take Santana or the guys we had, I take Santana.  I don't care about the money.  It isn't mine.

Then, we have The Cherington Factor that no one brings up, so I will now.  Do we have trust in his assessment or not?  I choose to give him the benefit of doubt.  If he's incapable of weighing the pros and cons of this player, then what gives anyone confidence in his ability to judge any other?
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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fjk090852-7
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #17 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:18am
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GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 9:28am:
For a team that hates spending money, they spent money.  I have no problem with it.  He hits home runs.

If my choice is to take Santana or the guys we had, I take Santana.  I don't care about the money.  It isn't mine.

Then, we have The Cherington Factor that no one brings up, so I will now.  Do we have trust in his assessment or not?  I choose to give him the benefit of doubt.  If he's incapable of weighing the pros and cons of this player, then what gives anyone confidence in his ability to judge any other?

I agree with your thoughts. The Pirates will never be in play for a player like Judge. Santana is not a dumpster dive like some of the players the Pirates have signed in the past. They spent some money on Santana with the hopes he will fill a need for the upcoming season. He and Choi are both players who fill the gap this year as we wait  the young prospects make their way to the major league.
  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #18 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 11:04am
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It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana.  He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655

Chavis against righties was 222 with 618.

I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400.

It just seems like settling to me.  We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again).
  
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #19 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 12:27pm
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Feels like a Burnitz or Lyle Overbay or even Derek Bell signing to me but whatever.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #20 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:51pm
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Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 11:04am:
It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana.  He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655

Chavis against righties was 222 with 618.

I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400.

It just seems like settling to me.  We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again).


Reality is that a younger, more powerful, .250 guy does not come to the Pirates.  They have other options and the price tag's even higher.  Neither side would have interest.

If Cherington's "off" on this evaluation, then he could be as equally off on the draft choices he's made.  The difference is the cost, but the effect's the same.  He wouldn't have made this deal if he didn't feel comfortable with it.
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #21 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:30pm
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Jeromy Burnitz 2.0.
  
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fjk090852-7
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #22 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 3:58pm
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There are  a lot of mixed comments regarding the Santana signing, but when former players say he has a winning attitude, and holds respect with his fellow players, he seems the perfect guy for Cruz, Andujar and others to learn from his veteran presence. When the Pirates had winning seasons, young players looked up to Clemente, Stargell and most recently A J Burnett. Winning teams need these types of players. I hope very soon they sign a starting pitcher whom the young starters can learn, from his time in the League.
  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #23 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 4:01pm
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GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:51pm:
Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 11:04am:
It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana.  He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655

Chavis against righties was 222 with 618.

I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400.

It just seems like settling to me.  We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again).


Reality is that a younger, more powerful, .250 guy does not come to the Pirates.  They have other options and the price tag's even higher.  Neither side would have interest.

If Cherington's "off" on this evaluation, then he could be as equally off on the draft choices he's made.  The difference is the cost, but the effect's the same.  He wouldn't have made this deal if he didn't feel comfortable with it.


at least he is making moves, that should make it easier to decide if he is David Littlefield 2.0.  Still the team is going to be spending 11 million or so on first in 2023.  Right now first base (other than perhaps Hayes) is going to be the team's most expensive position.  I'd like to get more bang for the buck than Choi and Santana.
  
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WildwoodDave 2
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #24 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 4:43pm
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Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 4:01pm:
GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:51pm:
Ecbucs wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 11:04am:
It is a gamble with Nuttings money but I find it hard to believe that BC can't find a better use for this than on Santana.  He hit less than 170 against righthanded pitchers last year with ops of 655

Chavis against righties was 222 with 618.

I sure would like a first baseman or dh that slugs better than 400.

It just seems like settling to me.  We plugged that hole with 2 players and it should be a little better than last year (but to me it looks like it will still be one of worst offenses from first again).


Reality is that a younger, more powerful, .250 guy does not come to the Pirates.  They have other options and the price tag's even higher.  Neither side would have interest.

If Cherington's "off" on this evaluation, then he could be as equally off on the draft choices he's made.  The difference is the cost, but the effect's the same.  He wouldn't have made this deal if he didn't feel comfortable with it.


at least he is making moves, that should make it easier to decide if he is David Littlefield 2.0.  Still the team is going to be spending 11 million or so on first in 2023.  Right now first base (other than perhaps Hayes) is going to be the team's most expensive position.  I'd like to get more bang for the buck than Choi and Santana.

I don't feel we can make any judgement until half way through the season
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #25 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 8:50pm
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We're able to make judgments every day.  What we can't do is come to a conclusion.

What's the worst that can happen?

The worst is that a team that lost 100 games....Will lose 100 games.

It's a one-year deal, for heaven's sake.  If the team and guy does well and the unlikely event, we make the playoffs.


It's most likely he stays four months.  That won't cause long-term harm.  If it does, we have far bigger issues.

He very well could be dealt.

Let's do nothing.  That's worked so well over recent years.
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #26 - Nov 26th, 2022 at 10:00pm
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No I genuinely didn't know how he was doing the past several years.  I mean I knew him with the Indians (my nephew is a fan) but I'm sure he'll be fine.
  
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #27 - Nov 27th, 2022 at 3:58am
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Never understand yinzer mentality. Complain when they don't spend, complain about who it's spent on when the pocket book gets crowbarred open. This isn't a dumpster dive, they paid what I'm assuming is market value. But yeah bring back cutch for sentimental reasons.
  

"Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on earth."  Muhammed Ali
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #28 - Nov 27th, 2022 at 6:00am
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Word, except for the "Cutch" reference.

They want to bring Cutch back for BASEBALL reasons.  Smiley))))
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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Re: Carlos Santana
Reply #29 - Nov 27th, 2022 at 8:37am
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I see more positives to this signing than negatives.  To me, he was signed in order to be traded at the deadline.  At his age, and with the team still likely two years away from competing, he wasn't brought in to fill a hole that will complete the line-up on a team looking to make the playoffs.

The same can be said of Choi.  Both guys are here because there's no 1Bman in the system who's quite ready.  Hopefully by the end of July someone emerges, allowing BC to deal both Santana and Choi.  Of course, it would help if both have good seasons up to that point.  If not, signing both is still a chance worth taking.
  
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