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SammyKhalifa
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Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Nov 16th, 2022 at 10:37am
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Yeah it's off-the-field news (or more literally, right on the field I guess) but this is good to hear.  It was a big misstep.  I miss the board with the physical light bulbs on it but that's not going to happen. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2022/11/16/pirates-to-return-out-of-...
  
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Doc
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #1 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 11:04am
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Finally they do something right.  I loved that scoreboard.

Interesting how long it’s been since both Nutting and Williams have talked with the media.  Actually, I don’t want to hear from Nutting at all.  He’d just lie anyway.
  
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Bobster
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #2 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 11:10am
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SammyKhalifa wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 10:37am:
Yeah it's off-the-field news (or more literally, right on the field I guess) but this is good to hear.  It was a big misstep.  I miss the board with the physical light bulbs on it but that's not going to happen. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2022/11/16/pirates-to-return-out-of-...

Good move!
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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MaineBucs
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 12:13pm
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Agree, a very good move.

The loss of the scoreboard (I loved the scoreboard at Forbes Field), a staple in all ball parks, was a constant reminder of how cheap Nutting is.

Of course, Nutting probably figured that the scoreboard was unnecessary because why should Pirate fans and players care what is happening with other teams since the Pirates have no chance of competing for anything except last place and a higher draft pick.
  
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Surgnbuck
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 2:30pm
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Wish I could read the article. This was undoubtedly the biggest complaint regarding the "fan experience". Yes, they did show the scores between innings, but you had maybe a minute to take all the scores in.

I find it hard to believe they're actually doing something for the "fan experience" that doesn't involve putting in another bar.
  

"Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on earth."  Muhammed Ali
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #5 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 4:03pm
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 2:30pm:
Wish I could read the article. This was undoubtedly the biggest complaint regarding the "fan experience". Yes, they did show the scores between innings, but you had maybe a minute to take all the scores in.

I find it hard to believe they're actually doing something for the "fan experience" that doesn't involve putting in another bar.

Per the article, Travis Willams made the announcement at a town hall meeting attended by "50 or 60 people." Questions had to be submitted ahead of time (apparently so that Williams, Cherington and Shelton could avoid any issues they'd rather not talk about). The media was not invited.

The article states:
Reasons for returning the out-of-town scoreboard should be fairly straightforward. PNC Park was pretty much the only major league park without one, and fans made their displeasure known, either in postseason surveys or via social media.

The Pirates averaged 15,524 per home game in 2022, down from 18,412 in 2019, the last full year before the pandemic.

That 2022 figure represents an all-time low at PNC Park. In fact, the past three full seasons represent the three lowest attendance years in the ballpark’s history (since 2001).

Williams has not taken questions from reporters about the state of the team since March 3, 2021. Owner Bob Nutting’s last group availability was Oct. 28, 2019, when the Pirates introduced the hiring of Williams as president.


While it's nice to get the scoreboard back, the fact that it is in response to diminishing attendance and follows the dumpster dive for Choi to play 1B suggests that the brain trust is still looking for ways to improve the fan experience without making a serious effort to improve the team.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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Surgnbuck
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #6 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 5:33pm
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I don't know how you connect the scoreboard to attendance. The Pirates have been listening to fans on what takes place at the game that doesn't relate to the game.

And Choi is not a dumpster dive. I think he'll be a solid addition. It can't hurt when a guy comes from a winning culture.
  

"Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on earth."  Muhammed Ali
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #7 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 6:31pm
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 5:33pm:
I don't know how you connect the scoreboard to attendance. The Pirates have been listening to fans on what takes place at the game that doesn't relate to the game.

And Choi is not a dumpster dive. I think he'll be a solid addition. It can't hurt when a guy comes from a winning culture.

Tampa essentially gave Choi away. The winning culture didn't want him. He is a career .239 hitter who's last 3 seasons have been consistent at .230, .229 and .233. His power is modest and below average for a corner infielder. He is not a good defender. And he's 32 so he's not a young guy with untapped potential. IMHO he was a quick fix at 1B with a low ceiling. Exactly what a team that claims it is rebuilding and should be getting stronger each year should not be doing. If he lasts the season, they'll be looking to upgrade that position the following year.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 5:34am
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 2:30pm:
Wish I could read the article. This was undoubtedly the biggest complaint regarding the "fan experience". Yes, they did show the scores between innings, but you had maybe a minute to take all the scores in.

I find it hard to believe they're actually doing something for the "fan experience" that doesn't involve putting in another bar.


Hold on there Surg, some fans need more places to drink so they can overcome the suckiness of the Pirates.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  

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Surgnbuck
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 6:16am
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Bobster wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 6:31pm:
Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 5:33pm:
I don't know how you connect the scoreboard to attendance. The Pirates have been listening to fans on what takes place at the game that doesn't relate to the game.

And Choi is not a dumpster dive. I think he'll be a solid addition. It can't hurt when a guy comes from a winning culture.

Tampa essentially gave Choi away. The winning culture didn't want him. He is a career .239 hitter who's last 3 seasons have been consistent at .230, .229 and .233. His power is modest and below average for a corner infielder. He is not a good defender. And he's 32 so he's not a young guy with untapped potential. IMHO he was a quick fix at 1B with a low ceiling. Exactly what a team that claims it is rebuilding and should be getting stronger each year should not be doing. If he lasts the season, they'll be looking to upgrade that position the following year.

Pirates team OPS+84, Choi 114 (average is 100) Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team 1B combined WAR in 2022, -4, Choi WAR 1.2, meaning he improves the team WAR at first by 5.2. Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team BA-.222, Choi .233 Win Choi
Pirates team OBP-.291, Choi .341 HUGE Win Choi
Pirates team SLG- .364, Choi .388 Win Choi
Of all the players with as many AB's (356) as Choi, only Reynolds and Hayes had a higher batting average. So I find the three areas you chose, BA, fielding, and power, he's clearly better than practically everyone on the team, let alone far superior than any first baseman they threw out there. He'll be platooned.  Chavis hit 14 HR's and had 49 RBI, all his HR's and most of his RBI at that position. Choi was 11/52 in 72 fewer AB's.

I've clearly shown Choi is an upgrade. What did you want, Rizzo? He's a stop gap, and quite honestly, IIRC you were one of the people enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel, but Choi doesn't cut the grade?

And may I kindly so remind, Tampa plays the game on the cheap like the Pirates. He was projected 4.5 million in arbitration and Tampa needs to save money to pay for Glasnow. Dumping Choi pays for almost 20 percent of that salary.

But you know what? Instead of calling guys dumpster dives right out of the chute, why don't we give them a chance?
  

"Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on earth."  Muhammed Ali
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 8:30am
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I think we just have to wait and see how Choi does before
we start voicing opinions one way or another
  
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 9:39am
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 17th, 2022 at 6:16am:
Bobster wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 6:31pm:
Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 5:33pm:
I don't know how you connect the scoreboard to attendance. The Pirates have been listening to fans on what takes place at the game that doesn't relate to the game.

And Choi is not a dumpster dive. I think he'll be a solid addition. It can't hurt when a guy comes from a winning culture.

Tampa essentially gave Choi away. The winning culture didn't want him. He is a career .239 hitter who's last 3 seasons have been consistent at .230, .229 and .233. His power is modest and below average for a corner infielder. He is not a good defender. And he's 32 so he's not a young guy with untapped potential. IMHO he was a quick fix at 1B with a low ceiling. Exactly what a team that claims it is rebuilding and should be getting stronger each year should not be doing. If he lasts the season, they'll be looking to upgrade that position the following year.

Pirates team OPS+84, Choi 114 (average is 100) Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team 1B combined WAR in 2022, -4, Choi WAR 1.2, meaning he improves the team WAR at first by 5.2. Huge Win for Choi.
Pirates team BA-.222, Choi .233 Win Choi
Pirates team OBP-.291, Choi .341 HUGE Win Choi
Pirates team SLG- .364, Choi .388 Win Choi
Of all the players with as many AB's (356) as Choi, only Reynolds and Hayes had a higher batting average. So I find the three areas you chose, BA, fielding, and power, he's clearly better than practically everyone on the team, let alone far superior than any first baseman they threw out there. He'll be platooned.  Chavis hit 14 HR's and had 49 RBI, all his HR's and most of his RBI at that position. Choi was 11/52 in 72 fewer AB's.

I've clearly shown Choi is an upgrade. What did you want, Rizzo? He's a stop gap, and quite honestly, IIRC you were one of the people enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel, but Choi doesn't cut the grade?

And may I kindly so remind, Tampa plays the game on the cheap like the Pirates. He was projected 4.5 million in arbitration and Tampa needs to save money to pay for Glasnow. Dumping Choi pays for almost 20 percent of that salary.

But you know what? Instead of calling guys dumpster dives right out of the chute, why don't we give them a chance?

If your point is that Choi might be less awful than those who played 1B last year, you may be right. But I was hoping for more. Choi is a veteran whose capabilities are pretty well known by now. His ceiling is low enough that instead of settling for what he brings, I would rather see others get those ABs to see what they could do: Endy Rodriguez, Cal Mitchell, Nunez (who isn't even protected), maybe even Henry Davis. At least those guys might have a future with the team.

As for your attempt to discredit me by claiming I was "enamored with guys like Chavis and Gamel," I generally liked them as role players. Chavis was miscast as a regular 1Bman. He is versatile but was not used that way. He is the type who could come off the bench and fill in at numerous positions and has power. Gamel should be a nice 4th OFer type who was pressed into extended play for the Pirates who lacked alternatives. Neither should be an everyday player. So I don't know what my assessment of them has to do with settling for Choi as the regular 1Bman. So just for the record, let me make it clear I am not "enamored" with Choi.  Wink
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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Surgnbuck
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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #12 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 2:54pm
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Bobster, we all hope for more! This is an upgrade from signings like VanMeter and Chang. Choi is here for one season, he'll be a FA in 2024. We know he'll be platooned. We also know he's getting elbow surgery. He hit 11 HR's with a bum elbow, but according to someone on reddit, he would have had 4 more HR's had he been playing at PNC park.

He's reported to be a great clubhouse influence, and I'm not saying you've said it, but some folks on this board talk about veteran presence, and he has that, plus he comes from a winning culture. He's a plus addition all around, aside from we'd like to see more.
  

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Re: Pirates to bring back out-of-town scoreboard at PNC Park
Reply #13 - Nov 17th, 2022 at 3:14pm
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 17th, 2022 at 2:54pm:
Bobster, we all hope for more! This is an upgrade from signings like VanMeter and Chang. Choi is here for one season, he'll be a FA in 2024. We know he'll be platooned. We also know he's getting elbow surgery. He hit 11 HR's with a bum elbow, but according to someone on reddit, he would have had 4 more HR's had he been playing at PNC park.

He's reported to be a great clubhouse influence, and I'm not saying you've said it, but some folks on this board talk about veteran presence, and he has that, plus he comes from a winning culture. He's a plus addition all around, aside from we'd like to see more.

On the plus side, I've read he was particularly hurt by hitting into the shift, which--hopefully--will result in more hits with the shift now outlawed. But I guess we could say that for a lot of players.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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