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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Early free agency outlook (Read 2831 times)
Babe Adams
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Early free agency outlook
Nov 4th, 2022 at 12:11pm
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Top 30 free agents, per Jon Heyman, with possible destinations:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

The article doesn't connect the Pirates to any of them. Some familiar names:

Tyler Anderson 3/$50 million
Jameson Taillon 4/$60 million
Jose Quintana 2/$25 million
Josh Bell 3/$51 million
  

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Doc
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2022 at 1:50pm
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Looking at the teams that are in contention for these players, one would think there are only 16 teams comprising Major League Baseball again.  The fact that only about half of the franchises will contend to sign these players indicates the inequalities that exist.

Yeah, Nutting’s a problem.  A big problem.  But he’s not going away.  The Pirates can certainly afford some of those players, like Taillon, for example.  But we’re all fairly certain they’ll be non participants in the free agent market.  If Baseball doesn’t change in order to put all of the franchises on equal footing, and force someone like Nutting to be a real owner, the Pirates will remain as they are:  schedule fillers.
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2022 at 4:58pm by Doc »  
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WildwoodDave 2
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2022 at 5:18pm
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Doc wrote on Nov 4th, 2022 at 1:50pm:
Looking at the teams that are in contention for these players, one would think there are only 16 teams comprising Major League Baseball again.  The fact that only about half of the franchises will contend to sign these players indicates the inequalities that exist.

Yeah, Nutting’s a problem.  A big problem.  But he’s not going away.  The Pirates can certainly afford some of those players, like Taillon, for example.  But we’re all fairly certain they’ll be non participants in the free agent market.  If Baseball doesn’t change in order to put all of the franchises on equal footing, and force someone like Nutting to be a real owner, the Pirates will remain as they are:  schedule fillers.

Unfortunately doc, you are right
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2022 at 6:17pm
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Let the market reign.

The market will tell BOB what to do and not do.  For every person who's complained to me about BOB's unwillingness to land big fish, I have three more who complain about over-paid baseball players and tell me that the Pirates should "play the kids."

The list of teams that generally don't sign many veteran FAs:

Tampa until recently
Cleveland
Kansas City
Pittsburgh

And, Oakland fluctuates.

The problem's with these clubs, not the other 25.

Most have made it their business models to focus mostly on internally-developed talent.  Like it or not, the 25 competitors aren't going to dictate to the five how to run their operations. 

The large market Milwaukee Brewers club goes about things their way.  BOB and the Pirates have chosen to take another route, and that's his prerogative.
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2022 at 6:27pm by GreenWeenie »  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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SCBucco
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #4 - Nov 6th, 2022 at 6:19pm
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GreenWeenie wrote on Nov 4th, 2022 at 6:17pm:
Let the market reign.

The market will tell BOB what to do and not do.  For every person who's complained to me about BOB's unwillingness to land big fish, I have three more who complain about over-paid baseball players and tell me that the Pirates should "play the kids."

The list of teams that generally don't sign many veteran FAs:

Tampa until recently
Cleveland
Kansas City
Pittsburgh

And, Oakland fluctuates.

The problem's with these clubs, not the other 25.

Most have made it their business models to focus mostly on internally-developed talent.  Like it or not, the 25 competitors aren't going to dictate to the five how to run their operations. 

The large market Milwaukee Brewers club goes about things their way.  BOB and the Pirates have chosen to take another route, and that's his prerogative.


You are right with those four and Oakland.  But lets look at this another way, Tampa and Cleveland do a hell of a job developing players.  They always have internal candidates and if they need someone they get a decent role player.  Oakland was that same franchise as the other two until recently.  They have unloaded basically every good player on their roster absent Brown and Murphy.

Pittsburgh and KC are the outliers really.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #5 - Nov 6th, 2022 at 6:47pm
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I'll go along with that.

The bulk of these teams' payroll usually goes toward keeping their talent rather than acquiring guys after they've left other teams.  We saw Cleveland open the vault for Jose Ramirez. 

Oakland has gone back to being frugal because of never-ending stadium issues. 

Teams of all cities have plenty of money.  No one expects a team to go out and sign 25 players for huge amounts.  All can afford a couple.  It's just that some clubs are more conservative than others.  Our owner prefers internal development over other sources, and I don't see how competitors should be expected to force him to change.
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

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Babe Adams
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #6 - Nov 7th, 2022 at 8:34am
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #7 - Nov 7th, 2022 at 11:13am
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Chad Kuhl, Trevor Williams, Jameson Taillon from long in the Bucs system along with Jose Quintana and Tyler Anderson from recent dumpster dives.

Would that be a better starting rotation then Contreras, Keller, Brubaker, Oviedo, and Ortiz?
  

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Doc
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #8 - Nov 7th, 2022 at 8:16pm
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Surgnbuck wrote on Nov 7th, 2022 at 11:13am:
Chad Kuhl, Trevor Williams, Jameson Taillon from long in the Bucs system along with Jose Quintana and Tyler Anderson from recent dumpster dives.

Would that be a better starting rotation then Contreras, Keller, Brubaker, Oviedo, and Ortiz?


It would at least make for a good discussion.  I’d take Anderson for sure.  Quintana would be a big chance not knowing if he can duplicate what he did in ‘22.  Taillon has been such a hard luck pitcher his whole career but I think he’d be a nice addition to the current Pirates rotation.  I’d not be willing to bring back either Williams or Kuhl.

I really like Contreras, Keller’s improvement was a nice surprise, and I was encouraged by what Oviedo and Ortiz showed in their few starts.  I think Brubaker has earned more starts.  The guys in the rotation showed promise and growth, now they need to show they can keep the team in games consistently over 162 games.
  
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Doc
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #9 - Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:35am
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Chris Archer is available once again, as is Miguel Sano.  Remember when he was an amateur youth and was thought to be the next great player, and how the Pirates somehow screwed-up in signing him when it was thought they had him all locked up?  Other than a couple of good HR seasons, he was mostly pedestrian.
  
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #10 - Nov 8th, 2022 at 5:23pm
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Doc wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:35am:
Chris Archer is available once again, as is Miguel Sano.  Remember when he was an amateur youth and was thought to be the next great player, and how the Pirates somehow screwed-up in signing him when it was thought they had him all locked up?  Other than a couple of good HR seasons, he was mostly pedestrian.


Do I ever remember the crap that hit the fan when the Twinkies beat us to Sano.  Rene de Guyo was the Bucs' Latin American chief scout and he was eventually dismissed because he was taking too much of the players bonus.
  

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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #11 - Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:25pm
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Possum wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 5:23pm:
Doc wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:35am:
Chris Archer is available once again, as is Miguel Sano.  Remember when he was an amateur youth and was thought to be the next great player, and how the Pirates somehow screwed-up in signing him when it was thought they had him all locked up?  Other than a couple of good HR seasons, he was mostly pedestrian.


Do I ever remember the crap that hit the fan when the Twinkies beat us to Sano.  Rene de Guyo was the Bucs' Latin American chief scout and he was eventually dismissed because he was taking too much of the players bonus.

I recall reading that Guyo was spreading the story that Sano was older than everyone thought because the Pirates didn't want other teams to offer more money. Sano and his family were angry about that and refused to sign with the Pirates.
  

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Doc
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:42pm
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Bobster wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:25pm:
Possum wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 5:23pm:
Doc wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:35am:
Chris Archer is available once again, as is Miguel Sano.  Remember when he was an amateur youth and was thought to be the next great player, and how the Pirates somehow screwed-up in signing him when it was thought they had him all locked up?  Other than a couple of good HR seasons, he was mostly pedestrian.


Do I ever remember the crap that hit the fan when the Twinkies beat us to Sano.  Rene de Guyo was the Bucs' Latin American chief scout and he was eventually dismissed because he was taking too much of the players bonus.

I recall reading that Guyo was spreading the story that Sano was older than everyone thought because the Pirates didn't want other teams to offer more money. Sano and his family were angry about that and refused to sign with the Pirates.


I didn’t know that was the story behind his not signing with the Pirates when it was all but certain he would. 
  
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Doc
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #13 - Nov 9th, 2022 at 8:00am
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The Dodgers are trying to figure out what they’re going to do about bringing back Justin Turner, Cody Bellinger, and Clayton Kershaw.  How happy do you think Nutting is that he doesn’t have that to deal with?
  
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Re: Early free agency outlook
Reply #14 - Nov 9th, 2022 at 11:51am
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Heck, he's elated he only has to worry about Ben Gamel and Michael Perez Embarrassed
  
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