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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread (Read 5598 times)
Doc
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #90 - Sep 7th, 2022 at 3:08pm
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Osushawn wrote on Sep 7th, 2022 at 12:33pm:
Doc wrote on Sep 7th, 2022 at 8:37am:
skinnyhorse wrote on Sep 7th, 2022 at 12:05am:

This team is worse than when Cherington took it over, it's obvious.  A boycott of this creep (Nutting) is definitely in order.  If the community can't get that done then it goes back to what I said previously, the community is accepting losing baseball.  I'm seeing this malaise all over the country.  Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell would be rolling over and over in their graves if they saw what was going on with the Pirates.  Such a shame.  I for one can't watch it anymore.


For someone who can't watch them, who recommends that the team be boycotted, and who doesn't seem to care even a little bit about them anymore, you sure spend a lot of time complaining about them.

Always the smart ass, I'll always root for the Pirates but I won't watch the product being sold to the Pittsburg community today.  An incompetent manager who obviously supported by a incompetent GM and a incompetent owner.  I really really encourage the Pittsburg community to demand better, but I see no urgency in the community to fix it.  It's not going to change if the community gives bad Bob their money.  I won't watch it because it is a waste of my time when we all know the outcome and doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is insanity.  [/quote]

Calling me a name won't change the fact that you spend nearly every post complaining about the franchise in one way or another. 

You can watch them, not watch them.  You can root for them, not root for them.  Do what makes you happy.  But if in two years the team is competing for the playoffs under the current owner and GM, will you watch them then or will your hate for them prevent you from doing so? [/quote]

I thought it would make sense to say that it isn’t like BC just cherry picks the guys he trades for.  It is certain he gets feedback from scouts and if he is getting bad info, then why aren’t we hearing about scouting turnover.  He can only act on the info given to him. [/quote]

I imagine GMs put a lot of faith in their scouts because it’s impossible for the GM to see every prospect or potential acquisition.  Ultimately, though it’s the GMs who catch flak from the fan base when young players don’t succeed.  None of us have an understanding of how hard that job must be, much of which unfolds before the public and is reported in numerous types of media.  There aren’t many places to hide.
  
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WildwoodDave 2
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #91 - Sep 8th, 2022 at 7:57pm
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Doc wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 6:50pm:
Doc wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 6:49pm:
skinnyhorse wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 6:23pm:
Doc wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 4:12pm:
skinnyhorse wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 3:55pm:
Reading Cherington's remarks about how much he likes Shelton and what a great job he is doing makes me sick.  Statements like this just makes me convinced we have once again got a horrible GM.  Anyone who thinks Shelton is doing a great job is delusional barring on insanity.  I've seen enough of this guy he's had three years to start turning it around and as far as I can see the Pirates organization is worse off than the day he took over.  It's sooooo frustrating to think we have once again failed to choose a competent GM.   Such ridiculous statements are proof positive he needs to be gone along with his buddy Shelton.


What would you expect Cherington to say publicly about his employee?  Would you expect him to say the same things said about Shelton on this board?  Do you think that’s responsible?  Would you think it appropriate for your boss to point out your mistakes in a newspaper or on television?

I expect a thoughtful answer with some nuggets of reality.  If this is his reality, he needs to go along with Shelton.  I see failures in trades, draft picks, development of players, managers, as losses pile up with no end in site.  Simple, just give us the truth, it would do worlds of good for this team.  Some fans and most players would respond to the truth.  Misleading everyone is never the answer.


Imagine if BC spoke the truth about Shelton, that he lived in the reality you want.  How do you think the players would react?  Basically, they’d have license to ignore Shelton and his coaches the rest of the way.  While on the surface that might actually benefit them, there would be chaos on the field and in the locker room.

Imagine the effect it would have on acquiring future players.  Few free agents want to sign here to begin with.  After BC ripped his manager in public, no one would ever come here.  We know how sensitive they are now.  They might fear it would happen to them.  They don’t want to be in an organization where the management doesn’t have their back.

In addition, imagine how the Pirates marketing department would take the news of Shelton ripping the manager?  Ticket sales would crater even more than they have in the past few years. 

Not much good can come from having BC speak the words you want to hear.  We all know Shelton has failed.  We all know he needs to be fired.  Maybe BC has wanted to but Nutting has refused to allow it because he doesn’t want to pay two managers for the next 14 months.  With Nutting, that’s not so far fetched.

Shelton has proven he’s not capable of managing a game.  If this team turns good beginning next year, no way will BC want a bad manager ruining what he created.  When the team is good, Shelton will be gone.


A very thoughtful and detailed answer. Jus t what I would expect from an educator
  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #92 - Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:27am
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Thank BUCS for yet another amazing season. I wonder if they broke attendance records?? I'm sure with the Steelers demise the Burgh fans will be counting the days until spring training because 2023 will be the year we don't lose 100.

MLB the best example of you get what you pay for.
  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #93 - Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:39am
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bucs607179 wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:27am:
Thank BUCS for yet another amazing season. I wonder if they broke attendance records?? I'm sure with the Steelers demise the Burgh fans will be counting the days until spring training because 2023 will be the year we don't lose 100.

MLB the best example of you get what you pay for.

Maybe Lloyd McCLendon could get them a good deal on champagne if they don't lose 100 next year.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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fjk090852-7
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #94 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 11:03am
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BenM wrote on Apr 16th, 2022 at 12:02pm:
GreenWeenie wrote on Apr 8th, 2022 at 5:54am:
All I have to say is this:

He must be a fantastic newspaper owner. 


Unless you own the Washington Post, New York Times, or the Wall Street Journal, newspapers are a dying business. That is why I think he is so committed to keeping the Pirates. He makes his priorities clear on the page for The Nutting Company.

It is a little concerning that Nutting has not met with the media for well over a year. The lease at PNC Park runs until 2030 and I hope that prior to the lease expiration he doesn’t inform the Sports and Exhibition Authority that he is going to trigger the lease expiration and move the team. I could see him doing that, and saying that due to declining attendance he has to move the team. My wish is that he would sell the team to someone who wants to operate it in Pittsburgh like a normal MLB franchise.
  
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Doc
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #95 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:00pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on Nov 25th, 2022 at 11:03am:
BenM wrote on Apr 16th, 2022 at 12:02pm:
GreenWeenie wrote on Apr 8th, 2022 at 5:54am:
All I have to say is this:

He must be a fantastic newspaper owner. 


Unless you own the Washington Post, New York Times, or the Wall Street Journal, newspapers are a dying business. That is why I think he is so committed to keeping the Pirates. He makes his priorities clear on the page for The Nutting Company.

It is a little concerning that Nutting has not met with the media for well over a year. The lease at PNC Park runs until 2030 and I hope that prior to the lease expiration he doesn’t inform the Sports and Exhibition Authority that he is going to trigger the lease expiration and move the team. I could see him doing that, and saying that due to declining attendance he has to move the team. My wish is that he would sell the team to someone who wants to operate it in Pittsburgh like a normal MLB franchise.


I’d put nothing past just about any owner of a sports franchise, especially Bob Nutting.  Franchises have been moved in the past and they’ll move in the future if more money is to be made.  In a case like you’ve brought up, I would hope that local officials put roadblocks in place to prevent Nutting from taking the Pirates elsewhere.  But make no mistake, Bob Nutting will do what’s in the  best interest of Bob Nutting.  We’re the least of his concerns.
  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #96 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:21pm
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Doc wrote on Nov 25th, 2022 at 12:00pm:
fjk090852-7 wrote on Nov 25th, 2022 at 11:03am:
BenM wrote on Apr 16th, 2022 at 12:02pm:
GreenWeenie wrote on Apr 8th, 2022 at 5:54am:
All I have to say is this:

He must be a fantastic newspaper owner. 


Unless you own the Washington Post, New York Times, or the Wall Street Journal, newspapers are a dying business. That is why I think he is so committed to keeping the Pirates. He makes his priorities clear on the page for The Nutting Company.

It is a little concerning that Nutting has not met with the media for well over a year. The lease at PNC Park runs until 2030 and I hope that prior to the lease expiration he doesn’t inform the Sports and Exhibition Authority that he is going to trigger the lease expiration and move the team. I could see him doing that, and saying that due to declining attendance he has to move the team. My wish is that he would sell the team to someone who wants to operate it in Pittsburgh like a normal MLB franchise.


I’d put nothing past just about any owner of a sports franchise, especially Bob Nutting.  Franchises have been moved in the past and they’ll move in the future if more money is to be made.  In a case like you’ve brought up, I would hope that local officials put roadblocks in place to prevent Nutting from taking the Pirates elsewhere.  But make no mistake, Bob Nutting will do what’s in the  best interest of Bob Nutting.  We’re the least of his concerns.

You are right the local officials will have to put up a fight if Nutting decides to move the team. Hopefully at that time the Mayor and County Executive have strong personalities to block any type of move. The Mayor at that time will have to be like Richard Caligeri or Tom Murphy. Caligeri who saved the Pirates  from moving in 1986, and Murphy who put his political career on the line by having PNC Park and the Steelers stadium built.
  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #97 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 6:26pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on Nov 25th, 2022 at 11:03am:
BenM wrote on Apr 16th, 2022 at 12:02pm:
GreenWeenie wrote on Apr 8th, 2022 at 5:54am:
All I have to say is this:

He must be a fantastic newspaper owner. 


Unless you own the Washington Post, New York Times, or the Wall Street Journal, newspapers are a dying business. That is why I think he is so committed to keeping the Pirates. He makes his priorities clear on the page for The Nutting Company.

It is a little concerning that Nutting has not met with the media for well over a year. The lease at PNC Park runs until 2030 and I hope that prior to the lease expiration he doesn’t inform the Sports and Exhibition Authority that he is going to trigger the lease expiration and move the team. I could see him doing that, and saying that due to declining attendance he has to move the team. My wish is that he would sell the team to someone who wants to operate it in Pittsburgh like a normal MLB franchise.

I don't think Nutting entertains thoughts of moving. He has a gold mine in Pittsburgh and he isn't going to spend in any other city either. I think he played the "we will spend eventually and build a championship team" card until the bluff no longer fooled anyone. So he can't give interviews now because he can't respond to the obvious questions about the direction of the team under his leadership. The jig is up and he's laughing all the way to the bank and he doesn't have to agree to talk to the media. He's been exposed as a liar and a fraud as a baseball team owner and he's not going to give any media outlet the opportunity to quote him while he collects his revenue.

I know that sounds like I'm just ranting and bashing but I believe that is 100% the situation.
  

There is no Choi in Mudville.
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #98 - Nov 25th, 2022 at 7:59pm
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I don't blame BOB for avoiding the media.  There's not one thing that he can possibly say that would sway my opinion of him.  If others are like me, then he would have nothing to gain from it.

He's reached the stage where his actions do his talking.  In other words:

Don't tell me when you're spending or going to do anything else.  Spend.  Do something.  I'll see it.
  

Nutting, Cherington, Shelton.

Serious Baseball.
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #99 - Jan 10th, 2023 at 2:02pm
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The Twins have according to sources, signed Correa to a 6 year contract for 200 million dollars. That is roughly 33 million dollars per year. The Twins are not a large market team, and they are spending a lot of money on one player. Why cannot the Pirates give Reynolds 6 years at 120 million dollars, or 20 million per year ? Nutting should not be allowed to own an MLB franchise.

  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #100 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 7:10pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on Jan 10th, 2023 at 2:02pm:
The Twins have according to sources, signed Correa to a 6 year contract for 200 million dollars. That is roughly 33 million dollars per year. The Twins are not a large market team, and they are spending a lot of money on one player. Why cannot the Pirates give Reynolds 6 years at 120 million dollars, or 20 million per year ? Nutting should not be allowed to own an MLB franchise.



If Nutting agreed to pay Reynolds $20 million per year, history indicating that being very unlikely, the other 25 players would have to share about $40 million, an average of $1.6 million each.  That would mean about 15 of those guys would have to be earning the minimum so that the few veterans on the team could be paid, but they wouldn’t get much, either.  Odds aren’t good that the team would be very competitive.

Nutting has been in charge of the franchise since 2007.  The next time he “spends a lot of money on one player”, or even spends money like an owner who tries to win, will be the first time.  His 15 years of ownership gives us a pretty good idea of what we can expect.

  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #101 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 7:48pm
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Doc wrote on Jan 18th, 2023 at 7:10pm:
fjk090852-7 wrote on Jan 10th, 2023 at 2:02pm:
The Twins have according to sources, signed Correa to a 6 year contract for 200 million dollars. That is roughly 33 million dollars per year. The Twins are not a large market team, and they are spending a lot of money on one player. Why cannot the Pirates give Reynolds 6 years at 120 million dollars, or 20 million per year ? Nutting should not be allowed to own an MLB franchise.



If Nutting agreed to pay Reynolds $20 million per year, history indicating that being very unlikely, the other 25 players would have to share about $40 million, an average of $1.6 million each.  That would mean about 15 of those guys would have to be earning the minimum so that the few veterans on the team could be paid, but they wouldn’t get much, either.  Odds aren’t good that the team would be very competitive.

Nutting has been in charge of the franchise since 2007.  The next time he “spends a lot of money on one player”, or even spends money like an owner who tries to win, will be the first time.  His 15 years of ownership gives us a pretty good idea of what we can expect.




don't forget that Neal H. said the team did  a study and no team was a winner (not sure if he was just talking about World Series winners or teams in the playoffs) if one player makes 15% or more of the payroll.

That doesn't make sense but since it is based on a study I guess it is easier to be rationalize it.
  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #102 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 9:07pm
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Ecbucs wrote on Jan 18th, 2023 at 7:48pm:
Doc wrote on Jan 18th, 2023 at 7:10pm:
fjk090852-7 wrote on Jan 10th, 2023 at 2:02pm:
The Twins have according to sources, signed Correa to a 6 year contract for 200 million dollars. That is roughly 33 million dollars per year. The Twins are not a large market team, and they are spending a lot of money on one player. Why cannot the Pirates give Reynolds 6 years at 120 million dollars, or 20 million per year ? Nutting should not be allowed to own an MLB franchise.



If Nutting agreed to pay Reynolds $20 million per year, history indicating that being very unlikely, the other 25 players would have to share about $40 million, an average of $1.6 million each.  That would mean about 15 of those guys would have to be earning the minimum so that the few veterans on the team could be paid, but they wouldn’t get much, either.  Odds aren’t good that the team would be very competitive.

Nutting has been in charge of the franchise since 2007.  The next time he “spends a lot of money on one player”, or even spends money like an owner who tries to win, will be the first time.  His 15 years of ownership gives us a pretty good idea of what we can expect.




don't forget that Neal H. said the team did  a study and no team was a winner (not sure if he was just talking about World Series winners or teams in the playoffs) if one player makes 15% or more of the payroll.

That doesn't make sense but since it is based on a study I guess it is easier to be rationalize it.


I can imagine NH went to great lengths to rationalize not spending Nutting’s money.  Doing so is what kept him employed for so long.  He was very good at following his boss’s direction that maximum profit was the priority, winning be damned.
  
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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #103 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 9:12pm
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Doc wrote on Jan 18th, 2023 at 9:07pm:
I can imagine NH went to great lengths to rationalize not spending Nutting’s money.  Doing so is what kept him employed for so long.  He was very good at following his boss’s direction that maximum profit was the priority, winning be damned.

I've always wondered if BN would have loosened the purse strings a bit under NH, especially when they started to improve. I feel that NH wanted to be a more successful Billy Beane. The A's had numerous MVP and Cy Young candidate types even in the moneyball era, the Pirates essentially had only Cutch. Had NH pulled off the miracle of winning it all, he could have punched his ticket anywhere, and I think that's what he was trying to do.
  

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Re: Official 2022 Pirates Owner/Front Office Bitching Thread
Reply #104 - Jan 19th, 2023 at 6:51am
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Surgnbuck wrote on Jan 18th, 2023 at 9:12pm:
Doc wrote on Jan 18th, 2023 at 9:07pm:
I can imagine NH went to great lengths to rationalize not spending Nutting’s money.  Doing so is what kept him employed for so long.  He was very good at following his boss’s direction that maximum profit was the priority, winning be damned.

I've always wondered if BN would have loosened the purse strings a bit under NH, especially when they started to improve. I feel that NH wanted to be a more successful Billy Beane. The A's had numerous MVP and Cy Young candidate types even in the moneyball era, the Pirates essentially had only Cutch. Had NH pulled off the miracle of winning it all, he could have punched his ticket anywhere, and I think that's what he was trying to do.


NH's biggest problems were that he was a poor talent evaluator and he hired poor player developers.  I'm not sure he'd have succeeded even if Nutting agreed to spend more.
  
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