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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 5 Innings of Argument Starters (Read 534 times)
BellevueBuc
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #15 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 9:13am
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Bobster wrote on Jan 9th, 2022 at 10:05am:
Regarding the infield (assuming there is a season): I believe they would like to see Chavis win the 2B job and get a season's worth of ABs. He has shown some power in the minors and hit 18 HRs in 347 ABs for Boston in 2019. And this team desperately needs power. If he can supply it, he could move to the OF (where he already has some experience) in a year or 2 when Nick Gonzalez is ready to take over 2B.

Newman's job security is perilous. Two of their best prospects are SSs with Cruz and Peguero. And with each passing year Newman's .308 BA in 2019 looks more like a fluke. He seems like a good field/no hit SS who will likely be traded and replaced by Cruz before the season is over.

As for Tucker, I think the fans like him more than the Pirates front office does. He's likeable and energetic and came onto our radar as a #1 draft pick earmarked to be the SS of the future. That's a lot to like. But the reality is that he's a switch hitter who doesn't hit well from either side of the plate. And despite all the experimenting they've done with young players the past few years, Tucker has never been given a chance to win the starting SS or 2B job despite excellent fielding. So it seems the organization has made up its mind about him. He will likely make the team as a light hitting utility INF/OF type. But such players are easily replaceable, and I doubt he has more than 1 more year in then organization, if that. 



Newman's good defense could very well be a fluke as well. This past season is the first time he was a positive defensive player.
  
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Bobster
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #16 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 9:55am
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BellevueBuc wrote on Jan 10th, 2022 at 9:13am:
Bobster wrote on Jan 9th, 2022 at 10:05am:
Regarding the infield (assuming there is a season): I believe they would like to see Chavis win the 2B job and get a season's worth of ABs. He has shown some power in the minors and hit 18 HRs in 347 ABs for Boston in 2019. And this team desperately needs power. If he can supply it, he could move to the OF (where he already has some experience) in a year or 2 when Nick Gonzalez is ready to take over 2B.

Newman's job security is perilous. Two of their best prospects are SSs with Cruz and Peguero. And with each passing year Newman's .308 BA in 2019 looks more like a fluke. He seems like a good field/no hit SS who will likely be traded and replaced by Cruz before the season is over.

As for Tucker, I think the fans like him more than the Pirates front office does. He's likeable and energetic and came onto our radar as a #1 draft pick earmarked to be the SS of the future. That's a lot to like. But the reality is that he's a switch hitter who doesn't hit well from either side of the plate. And despite all the experimenting they've done with young players the past few years, Tucker has never been given a chance to win the starting SS or 2B job despite excellent fielding. So it seems the organization has made up its mind about him. He will likely make the team as a light hitting utility INF/OF type. But such players are easily replaceable, and I doubt he has more than 1 more year in then organization, if that. 

Newman's good defense could very well be a fluke as well. This past season is the first time he was a positive defensive player.

True. Newman made only 3 errors all season and was very surehanded on the chances he had. As far as range factor goes, he was only 8th in the NL among SSs with at least 800 innings in chances per 9 innings, averaging 3.77 chances per 9 innings. That was below the league average of 3.85. He needs to be flawless on all the routine chances, which he basically was. But I wonder if that is sustainable.
  
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wvbucco
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #17 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 10:06am
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Even if he can maintain the flawless play, I think I'd rather have someone with greater range even if they make a few more errors.  Some of the greatest defensive shortstops in baseball history committed a fair amount of errors because they were getting to a lot more balls than someone with lesser range.
  
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SyrBucco
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #18 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 10:40am
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wvbucco wrote on Jan 10th, 2022 at 10:06am:
Even if he can maintain the flawless play, I think I'd rather have someone with greater range even if they make a few more errors.  Some of the greatest defensive shortstops in baseball history committed a fair amount of errors because they were getting to a lot more balls than someone with lesser range.

Until Peguero gets here, I'll be happy to see Newman out there at SS. I expect that his hitting will improve this year. I know ST doesn't count for much, but Newman did hit .600 last Spring, and he does have an MLB season with a .300+ AVG.
  
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BellevueBuc
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #19 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 11:27am
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SyrBucco wrote on Jan 10th, 2022 at 10:40am:
wvbucco wrote on Jan 10th, 2022 at 10:06am:
Even if he can maintain the flawless play, I think I'd rather have someone with greater range even if they make a few more errors.  Some of the greatest defensive shortstops in baseball history committed a fair amount of errors because they were getting to a lot more balls than someone with lesser range.

Until Peguero gets here, I'll be happy to see Newman out there at SS. I expect that his hitting will improve this year. I know ST doesn't count for much, but Newman did hit .600 last Spring, and he does have an MLB season with a .300+ AVG.


There is not much reason to think he will hit better. He was consistently bad all season. His approach and quality of contact need to drastically change.
  
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BellevueBuc
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #20 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 11:41am
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wvbucco wrote on Jan 10th, 2022 at 10:06am:
Even if he can maintain the flawless play, I think I'd rather have someone with greater range even if they make a few more errors.  Some of the greatest defensive shortstops in baseball history committed a fair amount of errors because they were getting to a lot more balls than someone with lesser range.


Agree.  There are also the plays he did not make that the score keeper decided were not errors. Errors are a weak metric to judge players on.

Newman's OOA were about average this past year, which is a big improvement for him. DRS, Newman was better, but again not good in the past.  Keeping an average fielder around that hits so terribly is not a great idea.  Banking on one year is foolish, especially when he has no other ways to help the team.
  
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MaineBucs
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #21 - Jan 10th, 2022 at 3:28pm
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# 1.  It clearly appears that the Pirates are going to be a bad team in 2022.   I would like to see Tucker get more playing time (2nd or SS) to see if he is part of the future mix or just another #1 pick that the Pirates missed on.   Okay with giving Chavis playing time to see if he can add some power.   While I like Newman, he did not produce offensively in 2021 or 2020's shortened season.  I don't believe it really matters if he stays or goes.  Gotta hope that Cruz or Peguro are the real deal as a future SS.  It looks like Gonzalez is the real deal, at least offensively, at 2nd. 

# 2.  With the exception of Reynolds hitting either 2nd or 3rd, most of the rest of the players would likely be hitting in any of the 6 - 8 spots on most teams.  In short, Gamel, as shown by your stats, as a platoon lead-off may make as much sense as anyone else on the team.  There are no stand-out candidates on the team (except Reynolds) to hit lead-off.   Perhaps that changes when Peguro comes up.

#3.  The Pirates' starting pitching will be bad.  One antidote that could help them win a few games would be to have a good bullpen for the 7th - 9th.  I hope that Bucs hold onto both Bednar and Stratton for at least the first half of the season, and bringing Rodriguez back at a reasonable price on a 1 year deal could add to the bullpen depth.  From there, I believe the Bucs need a bevy of pitchers who could go 2+ innings on most days to help make up for the shoddy starting pitching.   

# 4 and # 5.    As noted above, the starting pitching likely will be (really) bad.  Keller, Bumgartner, Peters, Crowe, Wilson, et al, should all get chances to succeed or fail, as the odds are Quintana and Thompson also will fail.  Bucs likely will be moving the above folks and others back and forth between the starting rotation, the pen and the minors (for those who have options) for most of the season.      

Thanks for posting your Argument Starters.  Unfortunately, the lack of talent on the team does not cause me to get as excited about the roster as in past seasons.  I am expecting a 50 win season, and that could be optimistic.
  
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BellevueBuc
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #22 - Jan 11th, 2022 at 12:00pm
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The Pirates are definitely planning to be bad in 2022.
  
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wvbucco
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #23 - Jan 11th, 2022 at 5:51pm
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BellevueBuc wrote on Jan 11th, 2022 at 12:00pm:
The Pirates are definitely planning to be bad in 2022.


I hope they're planning to play the younger players, if not right away then fairly early in the season.  If they end up with a bad record by doing that then I'm okay with it.
  
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #24 - Jan 11th, 2022 at 6:15pm
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The Pirates should do what it takes to have a good record.  Period.  That's in 2022 and every season.  I couldn't care less what the players ages are who achieve it.  I don't care what the players earn who do it.
  
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #25 - Jan 12th, 2022 at 9:59am
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wvbucco wrote on Jan 11th, 2022 at 5:51pm:
BellevueBuc wrote on Jan 11th, 2022 at 12:00pm:
The Pirates are definitely planning to be bad in 2022.


I hope they're planning to play the younger players, if not right away then fairly early in the season.  If they end up with a bad record by doing that then I'm okay with it.


That would be nice. Hopefully they do that in the OF and middle infield. I get having a vet pitcher or two, just so you have someone you dont worry about throwing out there every 5 days.
  
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Re: 5 Innings of Argument Starters
Reply #26 - Jan 14th, 2022 at 7:05pm
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Mainer, just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful response!
  
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