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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kneeling during National Anthem (Read 1040 times)
JollyRoger
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #15 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 3:48pm
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GreenWeenie wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 3:30pm:
I agree.  Politics has no place in MLB.  Like getting stadiums built....like....integration back in the day.....like, President Bush using baseball to unite our country shortly after September 11, 2001.

It's only a big deal when we disagree with the subject matter and how it's displayed.

I'm a Pirates fan.  Been kneeling since 1972.


Well said GW
  
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Possum
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #16 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 4:15pm
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ChitownBucco wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 2:59pm:
Is there a way we could stick a "great American" thread

Put a YouTube of the national anthem, maybe even a different version sung by various stars (like Whitney Houston super bowl) and every day before a poster comes in to read or post they could stand and honor America. Then maybe post an appreciative post about why they love our country and something that we might wish to see different in our country.


It's super important to see these young men's patriotism before they begin the task of running, throwing, and catching. Why not be patriotic before we get to the critical discussion of them hitting, throwing, catching?


How about Jimmy Hendrix at Woodstock.  Now there is a great rendition of the National Anthem!

« Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2020 at 4:22pm by Possum »  

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Possum
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #17 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 4:41pm
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JollyRoger wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 2:09pm:
I have had more than enough family members die while serving this country. My son is currently in the Army.
However we cannot look at this as being unpatriotic
We must look at it as exercising our freedom of speech and freedom to protest which are some of the values we as a nation have fought for.
Being alive during the Civil Rights movement I truly believed that racial equality and harmony was being addressed. I was wrong.
The election of 2016, the BLM movement opened my eyes to see that our country is divided not united.
I am hopeful that real change will occur and we can hopefully become a real UNITED States. When that happens we can enjoy our sports without debating the kneeling during the anthem


Having lived during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's I agree that there is more to kneeling during the anthem.  It is not a lack of patriotism as some suggest.  It is a plea by those who are affected by those complaining about kneeling.  Especially a guy who did not do as your son did by getting a deferment for service during that era due to bone spurs on his ankles.  Of course, if you believe that guy he is the greatest thing since sliced bread happening to this country.   Grin
  

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NJBucsFan
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #18 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 5:02pm
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It's not that complicated though. Players can decide whether to make a statement, and we can individually decide how much of the stink of politics we want to be a part of the game before we're no longer interested. For me it won't take much to turn me off of what is already a tainted season, but we'll see.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #19 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 5:09pm
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Possum wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 4:41pm:
JollyRoger wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 2:09pm:
I have had more than enough family members die while serving this country. My son is currently in the Army.
However we cannot look at this as being unpatriotic
We must look at it as exercising our freedom of speech and freedom to protest which are some of the values we as a nation have fought for.
Being alive during the Civil Rights movement I truly believed that racial equality and harmony was being addressed. I was wrong.
The election of 2016, the BLM movement opened my eyes to see that our country is divided not united.
I am hopeful that real change will occur and we can hopefully become a real UNITED States. When that happens we can enjoy our sports without debating the kneeling during the anthem


Having lived during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's I agree that there is more to kneeling during the anthem.  It is not a lack of patriotism as some suggest.  It is a plea by those who are affected by those complaining about kneeling.  Especially a guy who did not do as your son did by getting a deferment for service during that era due to bone spurs on his ankles.  Of course, if you believe that guy he is the greatest thing since sliced bread happening to this country.   Grin


Some people get it.

Some people don't.

Some people don't get what they don't get.

Some people already know what they don't have.

Some people need a lot of time to see what they have.

This world's made of all kinds, and not all of them get everything.
  
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skinnyhorse
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #20 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 6:57pm
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NJBucsFan wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 5:02pm:
It's not that complicated though. Players can decide whether to make a statement, and we can individually decide how much of the stink of politics we want to be a part of the game before we're no longer interested. For me it won't take much to turn me off of what is already a tainted season, but we'll see.

Exactly
  
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IABucFan
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #21 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 8:50pm
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JMTC, I don’t mind the kneeling, per se. What I DO mind is basing it off a false narrative. I just do not see some national, coordinated effort by police to hunt down and kill black men. I would argue that there’s no such thing as “systemic racism.” What law is there that only applies to white people and not people of color?

Furthermore, I have no issue saying black lives matter. I have serious problems with the organization Black Lives Matter, but that’s another topic for another day. But if black lives matter, can we at least say all black lives matter? Like the eight year old girl killed by these thugs? Her black life mattered. Or the black man gunned down in front of his six year old daughter. His black life mattered. Or the young black man shot and killed in CHAZ or CHOP or whatever they were calling that place. His black life mattered.

No...black lives only seem to matter when they are killed by a white police officer. And that happens an infinitesimally small amount of times relative to the number of interactions law enforcement officers have with black people.

If we have “systemic racism” in this country, we’re doing a piss poor job at it, seeing as how we not once but twice elected a black POTUS. We have over 100 POC serving in Congress. Multiple people of color serving in high level cabinet positions. Our current HUD director and surgeon general are black men. I think I read that there are over 860,000 households headed by a person of color with a net worth over $1 million in this country.

So, I ask...where is the inequality? Where exactly is the systemic racism that we're protesting? If you can show it to me, I’ll gladly stand, or kneel as it may be, with you to protest it. But protesting a boogeyman that doesn’t exist will never get us anywhere.
« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2020 at 8:40am by IABucFan »  
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #22 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 9:08pm
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https://twitter.com/mattwalshblog/status/1286827910087749634?s=21

Her black life mattered. Her baby's black life matters. But no protest over this. No kneeling for this. No uniform patches for this. No wall-to-wall cable news coverage for this.
  
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skinnyhorse
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #23 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 10:46pm
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skinnyhorse wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 6:57pm:
NJBucsFan wrote on Jul 24th, 2020 at 5:02pm:
It's not that complicated though. Players can decide whether to make a statement, and we can individually decide how much of the stink of politics we want to be a part of the game before we're no longer interested. For me it won't take much to turn me off of what is already a tainted season, but we'll see.

Exactly

Excellent post and every bit factual unlike so many posts.
  
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Gnats Eyelash
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #24 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 11:40pm
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Let's get one thing straight from the jump.

This is not a freedom of expression issue.

None of us have the right to make any statement we want on the job, unless it is permitted by our employer.  Food servers can't foist their political opinions on customers.  Construction workers can't whip out a bullhorn and pontificate on issues of the day.  Gymnastic coaches can't lecture the little ones on what is right and wrong with America.

Unless it is permitted by the proprietor of their business.

At that point, it becomes a business decision.  I would say this goes to labor relations and to marketing.

I don't think it's been collectively bargained for, so at the very least, it can be considered a tacit endorsement of the position.  It is a unilaterally granted/tolerated right of expression because, to do otherwise, may be at the peril of ownership and labor peace.

Marketing-wise, it gets even trickier.

While teammates will usually choose the path of lower conflict, fans are not beholden to either the team or the players.  In a city such as Pittsburgh, where attendance was tenuous at best going into this, offending any fan or group of fans puts the financial viability of the franchise in question.

This year, it won't be evident with no fannies in the seats, but TV ratings would show a decline if people don't agree with the messaging and presentation.  We will be able to tell, via inference, if coverage doesn't include visuals, or references to, the National Anthem.

As the father of a cop, I would be much less inclined to support a team that endorses a message that puts the life of my son in jeopardy.  That means following the team drops off my radar, and I don't buy tickets (when available), or merchandise, or support the sponsors of the team.

The Pirate Ship may wind up on Gilligan's Island.
  
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GreenWeenie
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #25 - Jul 24th, 2020 at 11:44pm
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So, someone's all that pissed off that they don't want to watch baseball- for ANY reason.

In the end, who cares?

Just because someone else makes a decision like that doesn't mean that I will. 

People can do what they want.  It's not like anyone here is so influential that the rest of us are going to follow suit.

We had a guy on a previous board that was going to quit doing something 1,000 times.  Go ahead.  Nobody cared. 

Nobody's talking someone into something.  No one's talking someone out of anything.
  
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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #26 - Jul 25th, 2020 at 12:08am
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man, this thread is making me uncomfortable bringing very important real life things into my baseball refuge.
  
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Gnats Eyelash
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #27 - Jul 25th, 2020 at 12:12am
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SammyKhalifa wrote on Jul 25th, 2020 at 12:08am:
man, this thread is making me uncomfortable bringing very important real life things into my baseball refuge.


Which is the issue, in a nutshell.

Someone wants the ability to make their political point as part of the presentation of a sporting event.  They don't want anyone to have a refuge from their ability to raise their issue.

Good luck in trying to put that genie back into the bottle.
  
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Possum
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #28 - Jul 25th, 2020 at 8:17am
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This Topic was moved here from OnlyBucs Fan Forum [move by] Possum.
  

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Possum
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Re: Kneeling during National Anthem
Reply #29 - Jul 25th, 2020 at 8:19am
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This topic is getting to be more than about baseball.  So I moved it to the Off-Topic Forum.  Gentlemen please continue your discussion but keep it civil.
  

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