Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Time to Vent (Read 563 times)
Carolina Bucco
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 784
Joined: Jul 7th, 2016
Time to Vent
Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:02am
Print Post  
Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.

* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.

* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.

* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.

* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.

* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.

If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).

PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bucs Fan in GA
Senior Member
****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 353
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Joined: Jul 5th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:58am
Print Post  
Carolina Bucco, I second the motion! It is a disgrace the way our club works to do everything on the player movement, improvement front. Sure I understand about being frugal. But if we sit on our hands and go with Chisenhall as our only OF, Newman and Gonzalez as our SS and add nothing else, we are not going to be in competition. Everyone but our beloved Bucs are working to improve their overall team. Sure we have decent to better than ever pitching....But why just settle for being okay! Our infield defense was terrible last year. We lack power. We lack a bench. We lack lefthanded pitching. Dang, I would think that Nutting would want to win something! Last off season's happenings should have etched the disappointment in his brain that the fanbase is unhappy. Which will result in lower attendance. Hoping that Neal Huntington is able to add more pieces and make our puzzle complete. Beat'em Bucs Cool
  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
Orlando Merced
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 574
Joined: Jul 5th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:06am
Print Post  
I'm also frustrated with the SS position. I don't think Newman should be anywhere near the opening day roster. He was one of the worst hitters in all of baseball last year in terms of accruing negative WAR. He needs to be in the minors and proving it there.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bobster
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3633
Joined: Jun 10th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:18am
Print Post  
Looks like they're assembling a 78-82 win team with an outside chance of overachieving. So everything's going according to plan. Sad
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JollyRoger
Senior Member
****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 486
Joined: Jul 16th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:23am
Print Post  
Actually it’s time to make an impact signing.
NH did something none of us expected when he traded prospects for Archer. Although I think we may have given up too much in the long run; the trade did solidify our rotation for the next 3 years.
Our payroll is currently under 80 million. The MLB average is around 150 million. This is the year to negotiate a new TV deal.
If we are going to compete the next 3 years and get a good TV contract; then we need an impact face of the Franchise signing.

I know it sounds crazy for the Pirates. But it makes sense to try and sign Harper. Give him the 35 or 40 million a year contract  and trade him in 4 years like the Marlins did with Stanton.
This gives the Bucs the LH power bat they need. When Polanco returns you could move Harper to 1B and decide what todo with Bell. The Bucs can certainly afford a 120 million dollar payroll.
The Pirates would have a very marketable team that would garner national exposure. The only problem I see with this plan is getting Harper to sign here. He will have many options to sign with teams the can offer  better advertising opportunities.

However the main point here is to go get elite talent now and not waste the pitching staff that under control and enhance the ability to maximize the new TV deal
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Quail
Elite Member
*****
Online


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 756
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 11:43am
Print Post  
Did anyone not see this coming? Attendance down in 2018 = Payroll down in 2019. It's pretty clear Bob Nutting is a reactive owner who is in love with his revenue "status quo".

We all witnessed the ownership/management response after the 2015 season, when there was a great opportunity to add to an already very good team, and go for a championship. Nadda. Not replacing the players who left as a free agent or retired (Happ & Burnett), and dumping Morton and Walker for no viable return. Turned a 98 win team in 2015 into a 78 win team in 2016.

As Bobster has pointed out, NH has clearly stated the franchise's "78-82 win + luck" philosophy. The object is not to take action to win a championship, but to maintain an equilibrium within the prescribed win-range, keep payroll in the bottom 20% of MLB and keep revenue at about the major league median. The 2016 Pirates filled that prescription like they were CVS, except for the "luck" part.

Having said that, going into 2019 NH has improved the defense (and hopefully the offense) by signing Kang and Gonzalez. Gave us a professional-temp right fielder in Chisenhall, and has assembled a very promising pitching staff. Maybe 2019 the Pirates will get the "luck" part right.
  

"In baseball, you don't know nothing."-  Yogi Berra
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bobster
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3633
Joined: Jun 10th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 11:55am
Print Post  
Very well said Quail. It's not as if NH isn't doing anything. But he'a making the kind of minor moves we have all come to expect and which wouldn't even be discussion worthy on an elite team. Nevertheless, they might slightly improve the wal-mart Pirates. The Archer deal was so out of the norm for them that we aren't likely to see another move of that nature for a long time.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mouse
Elite Member
*****
Online


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 934
Joined: Jun 30th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #7 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:15pm
Print Post  
NH is doing the best he can with the budget he has. He doesn't control what Nutting allows him. In one sense, I guess I'd rather see a 78 win team than a 58 win team.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Possum
Forum Administrator
*****
Offline


Older Than Dirt!

Posts: 1219
Location: Possum Holler, Pa
Joined: Jun 8th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #8 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:28pm
Print Post  
Carolina Bucco wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:02am:
Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.

* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.

* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.

* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.

* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.

* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.

If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).

PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.



I hear ya, Carolina Bucco.  But it all boils down to the question you raise and which I have highlighted.  It is NOT in Nutting's genes to spend money!  Not just on players but the scouting of players both amateur and MLB guys and the development staff throughout the entire organization.

Until this club is sold or Nutting suddenly develops a gene mutation the Bucs will forever lag behind the larger market spending clubs.
  

It's A Great Day for Bucco Baseball

Possum

---------------

Believe it or Not!  In 1959 the Pirates almost traded Dick Groat for Roger Maris.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Possum
Forum Administrator
*****
Offline


Older Than Dirt!

Posts: 1219
Location: Possum Holler, Pa
Joined: Jun 8th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:31pm
Print Post  
Quail wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 11:43am:
Did anyone not see this coming? Attendance down in 2018 = Payroll down in 2019. It's pretty clear Bob Nutting is a reactive owner who is in love with his revenue "status quo".

We all witnessed the ownership/management response after the 2015 season, when there was a great opportunity to add to an already very good team, and go for a championship. Nadda. Not replacing the players who left as a free agent or retired (Happ & Burnett), and dumping Morton and Walker for no viable return. Turned a 98 win team in 2015 into a 78 win team in 2016.

As Bobster has pointed out, NH has clearly stated the franchise's "78-82 win + luck" philosophy. The object is not to take action to win a championship, but to maintain an equilibrium within the prescribed win-range, keep payroll in the bottom 20% of MLB and keep revenue at about the major league median. The 2016 Pirates filled that prescription like they were CVS, except for the "luck" part.

Having said that, going into 2019 NH has improved the defense (and hopefully the offense) by signing Kang and Gonzalez. Gave us a professional-temp right fielder in Chisenhall, and has assembled a very promising pitching staff. Maybe 2019 the Pirates will get the "luck" part right.   


Should I call you a NH apologist?  No I should not.  You are telling things just the way they are.  NH does the best he can with the amount of money he is given.  Like I said above, it is not in Nutting's genes to spend more money than he has to and ensure a profit.
  

It's A Great Day for Bucco Baseball

Possum

---------------

Believe it or Not!  In 1959 the Pirates almost traded Dick Groat for Roger Maris.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SammyKhalifa
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 2459
Joined: Jul 1st, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #10 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:37pm
Print Post  
Possum wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:28pm:
Carolina Bucco wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:02am:
Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.

* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.

* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.

* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.

* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.

* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.

If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).

PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.



I hear ya, Carolina Bucco.  But it all boils down to the question you raise and which I have highlighted.  It is NOT in Nutting's genes to spend money!  Not just on players but the scouting of players both amateur and MLB guys and the development staff throughout the entire organization.

Until this club is sold or Nutting suddenly develops a gene mutation the Bucs will forever lag behind the larger market spending clubs.


I think we're not seeing the forest for the trees.  If only fixing the problems were that easy.  Of course spending a little more would make us a little better but it is not enough.  Ask the Indians or the Royals. 

TV Contracts.  TV Contracts.  TV Contracts. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ecbucs
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1844
Location: Alabama
Joined: Jun 30th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #11 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:18pm
Print Post  
SammyKhalifa wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
Possum wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:28pm:
Carolina Bucco wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:02am:
Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.

* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.

* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.

* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.

* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.

* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.

If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).

PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.



I hear ya, Carolina Bucco.  But it all boils down to the question you raise and which I have highlighted.  It is NOT in Nutting's genes to spend money!  Not just on players but the scouting of players both amateur and MLB guys and the development staff throughout the entire organization.

Until this club is sold or Nutting suddenly develops a gene mutation the Bucs will forever lag behind the larger market spending clubs.


I think we're not seeing the forest for the trees.  If only fixing the problems were that easy.  Of course spending a little more would make us a little better but it is not enough.  Ask the Indians or the Royals. 

TV Contracts.  TV Contracts.  TV Contracts. 


Let's hope Frank doesn't negotiate the next one.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SammyKhalifa
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 2459
Joined: Jul 1st, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #12 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:23pm
Print Post  
Ecbucs wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:18pm:
SammyKhalifa wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
Possum wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:28pm:
Carolina Bucco wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:02am:
Okay, time to vent. I realize it's still early, but I'm feeling like it's time to settle in for another offseason in which other teams try to get better and the Pirates try to build their roster without spending money.

* I'm happy with the Kang signing and I'm okay with the plan for a Kang/Moran platoon at 3b. It's actually not great but we have lots of bigger problems to worry about.

* I'm okay with the Chisenhall signing ... but as a 4th OF and a utility player. He's a good pickup for that role.

* I'm not happy if the plan to replace Polanco is a Chisenhall/Reyes platoon. I like both guys, but not as a starting RF trying to replace our ONLY true power source.

* I'm absolutely not happy if the plan at SS is to go with either Newman and/or Gonzalez. This is not a solution. PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY and sign a major league SS. Honestly I would be fine with Hechavarria. If the SS is not going to hit, we should at least pay for elite, Gold Glove caliber defense. Newman/Gonzalez is not a good idea.

* We need more pitching We need LEFT-HANDED pitching. Why in the world can't we SPEND SOME MONEY on someone like JA Happ. We need more pitching depth. I hate it every offseason when the Pirates say "we like our rotation and the depth behind it." Look, we know some guys are going to underachieve and have poor seasons, and some guys are going to get injured. WE NEED MORE QUALITY PITCHING.

If this current roster is essentially going to be our roster on opening day, plus a bullpen tweak or two, then we are in big, big, trouble. I can't believe (actually I can believe) that the Pirates are willing to go into a new season with these kind of holes in RF and SS, with virtually no power, and with little pitching depth (and again no lefties).

PLEASE SPEND SOME MONEY. PLEASE.



I hear ya, Carolina Bucco.  But it all boils down to the question you raise and which I have highlighted.  It is NOT in Nutting's genes to spend money!  Not just on players but the scouting of players both amateur and MLB guys and the development staff throughout the entire organization.

Until this club is sold or Nutting suddenly develops a gene mutation the Bucs will forever lag behind the larger market spending clubs.


I think we're not seeing the forest for the trees.  If only fixing the problems were that easy.  Of course spending a little more would make us a little better but it is not enough.  Ask the Indians or the Royals. 

TV Contracts.  TV Contracts.  TV Contracts. 


Let's hope Frank doesn't negotiate the next one.

Yeah.

A better deal will definitely help.  But no matter how well we do it won't be the dodgers or what the Cubs or even the Cardinals will get.  File this under "never gonna happen" but the only real answer is to better share the deals across MLB.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gileszee
New Member
*
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 28
Location: Orlando, Fl
Joined: Jul 2nd, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #13 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 3:11pm
Print Post  
So if we had a real ML owner, who was willing to spend and allow our team to compete with the elites of our own division for God's sake.  SS would be Manny Machado's and RF would be Bryce Harper's.

But we are not Philadelphia, sigh.  Oh well, I will continue to follow our Bucs and the guys on the team.  Hoping for the best, and if we get to .500 this year it will be a miracle.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SCBucco
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1175
Joined: Sep 13th, 2016
Re: Time to Vent
Reply #14 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:48pm
Print Post  
John Schopp, 1-year, 7.5 mill to the Twins.  Yep, vent time ... missed opportunity.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint