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mouse
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Cervelli?
Nov 29th, 2018 at 4:16am
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Reports are out that the Pirates are shopping Cervelli. P2 has a note on it and there is this note as well --
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/report-catchers-russell-martin-francisco-ce...

The sense I have is that the Pirates are a touch short on catchers as it is (my thoughts colored by that recent year when they needed so many). With Cervelli's health issues, though, I can understand exploring trades.
  
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fjk090852-7
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #1 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 7:40am
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Just because they are shopping him, does not mean they will trade him. If they would find a match for a deal, they may want a catcher in return as part of the package.
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #2 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 8:26am
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I think it's just common sense to see if anyone is interested in taking 11.5 million off their payroll for a catcher who is frequently unavailable while they have a good and much cheaper option in Diaz. But I doubt they will find a taker.
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #3 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:52am
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Bobster wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 8:26am:
I think it's just common sense to see if anyone is interested in taking 11.5 million off their payroll for a catcher who is frequently unavailable while they have a good and much cheaper option in Diaz. But I doubt they will find a taker. 


Agree with this.  Diaz is more than capable of putting up Cervelli numbers.  That said, we have NOTHING of any sorts behind him and out system is devoid of catching prospects.  Pittsburgh is more interested in cutting salary once again.  I would be interested if they found a taker and REINVESTED that 11.5 million on something that helps.
  
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Bucs Fan in GA
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #4 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:56am
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I understand the thinking behind entertaining offers on Francisco. And accept it. Dang our team has had some darn good catchers in my lifetime...

Smokey Burgess
Jim Paglaroni
Jerry May
Manny Sanguillen
Milt May
Steve Nicosia
Tony Pena
Spanky and Sluggo
Jason Kendall
Russell Martin
Francisco Cervelli

Would hate to see him go...Diaz looks like he is ready to handle the pitching staff though. If they deal Franky, I hope they get quality in return and Francisco goes to a team that is a winner. He certainly has given it his all as a Bucco...Would love to see him come back as a coach. The guy has a ton of personality and appears to be a good teacher. Will be interesting to see what Neal can get for Francisco....If not, I know he will do his darnedest wearing the tools of ignorance another season...   Cool
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #5 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:05pm
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Cervelli might bring back some bullpen help. If NH does make such a deal, I suspect he'll be satisfied that his off season work is done.
  

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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #6 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:36pm
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This comes down to the question of whether or not you see Diaz as a starting catcher.  If you think he can start 100-120 games and give you the kind of offense he provided last year, then it makes a lot of sense to trade Cervelli.  The money saved will surely buy a decent backup C from the FA market (or, more likely, a Larvarnway-esque guy for Indy) AND help fill one of the other holes (SS, SP depth, LHRP).

I get that, given where the payroll is, they shouldn't need to save money at this point to afford to fill the other holes.  It's also true that Frankie+Diaz gave us good catching every day whereas Diaz+Stallings or Diaz+FA_backup will be a downgrade.  The question is whether the whoever Cervelli's salary and return in trade provide more of an upgrade than that downgrade (probably about ~1.5 WAR?)?
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #7 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:58pm
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I'm with Bobster. Headed into free agency season, Cervelli is currently the fourth highest paid catcher in MLB. Combined with his concussion history, I don't see many (any?) takers unless this is a straight up salary dump with the Bucs kicking in salary.
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #8 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 1:37pm
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Quail wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:05pm:
Cervelli might bring back some bullpen help. If NH does make such a deal, I suspect he'll be satisfied that his off season work is done.



Trade Cervelli for prospects and do a trade or claim Jonathan Schoop who is supposedly going to be non tendered by Milwaukee.  Problem solved.
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #9 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 2:07pm
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BenM wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 12:58pm:
I'm with Bobster. Headed into free agency season, Cervelli is currently the fourth highest paid catcher in MLB. Combined with his concussion history, I don't see many (any?) takers unless this is a straight up salary dump with the Bucs kicking in salary.


it depends on how free agency shakes out.

Grandel from Dodgers will probably get a big deal.

Wilson Ramos will get a big deal
Kurt Suzuki signed for two years and 10 million.

I think Cervelli is worth more than a salary dump but I could see the Bucs keeping him too.  If he is dealt, there is no catching depth after Diaz (no one who appears to be capable of being a starter any time soon).
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #10 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 3:48pm
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I hope this is just an exploratory gesture from the Pirates looking to deal from a position of depth to move a short term asset for a long term piece. It would think this position from NH is the same one he took last year with Harrison, field offers, if nothing is desirable, keep the player.
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #11 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 7:28pm
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So where do you think Cervelli would rank among the free agent catchers that are available.
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #12 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 7:45pm
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wvbucco wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 7:28pm:
So where do you think Cervelli would rank among the free agent catchers that are available.

I have to believe he ranks very low. Not on talent, but for other significant reasons. First, he's under contract thru 2019 for 11.5 million. He misses a lot of games due to injury, especially now that he's had several concussions and goes into the protocol with just about every foul tip off his mask. That's what a team gets for 11.5 million. It's not negotiable. While free agents might be less talented, their contracts will be negotiated for 2019 so a team doesn't have to feel that it has no choice but to overpay them. And in the unlikely event that Cervelli surprises everyone and doesn't deal with injury issues in 2019, he becomes a free agent in 2020, so he's a 1 year rental. I don't see the Pirates picking up a huge chunk of his salary to trade him. If that's the case, they might as well keep him and let him share time with Diaz. And if a team was willing to pay all or most of his salary to acquire him in a trade, the return would be very minor since the compensation coming to the Pirates would primarily be the salary relief.   
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #13 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 9:05pm
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WAR? What is it good for? Cervelli had 3.2 and Diaz had 2.0 for a combined 5.2. One WAR is worth $8 million. Do the math. Cervelli was worth $25.6 million and Diaz was worth $16 million---A combined value of $41.6 million for Diaz's $559,000  and Cervelli's $11,500,000..combined $12,059,000.
It seems to me that we need more positions that produce over 5 WAR!!!!!
  
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Re: Cervelli?
Reply #14 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 9:48pm
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Bucs Fan in GA wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:56am:
I understand the thinking behind entertaining offers on Francisco. And accept it. Dang our team has had some darn good catchers in my lifetime...

Smokey Burgess
Jim Paglaroni
Jerry May
Manny Sanguillen
Milt May
Steve Nicosia
Tony Pena
Spanky and Sluggo
Jason Kendall
Russell Martin
Francisco Cervelli

Would hate to see him go...Diaz looks like he is ready to handle the pitching staff though. If they deal Franky, I hope they get quality in return and Francisco goes to a team that is a winner. He certainly has given it his all as a Bucco...Would love to see him come back as a coach. The guy has a ton of personality and appears to be a good teacher. Will be interesting to see what Neal can get for Francisco....If not, I know he will do his darnedest wearing the tools of ignorance another season...   Cool


Great list! I think it's worth mentioning Ed Ott as one of the good ones as well.

Special mention to Hank Foiles, Bob Oldis, and Harding Peterson who all caught for the Pirates either in the late 50s or early 60s, and all three of whom are among the 100 oldest living former Major League players.

Bonus trivia question: Who is the oldest living former Pirate?
Hint: He wasn't a catcher.






  

"In baseball, you don't know nothing."-  Yogi Berra
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