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Possum
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #15 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 12:49pm
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Buccos1313 wrote on Nov 7th, 2018 at 11:48am:
Possum wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 7:16pm:
Buccos1313 wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 7:01pm:


For supplying that info Buccos1313 you get one "Get Out of Jail Free" card and a 6 pack of  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley



Haha... thanks!!

While researching this article I came across another interesting article on Dick Groat.  While most of this article is about his time in St. Louis,  there is a very interesting tidbit on game 1 of the 1960 World Series.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/hit-and-run-has-a-history-...


Groat is a classy guy.  He felt the same about the years with the Buccos.  A bit pissed that they traded him but he never left his hometown.  But I must say that I had a chance to talk to Groat at his golf course many yrs ago and what I found out is that his real love was the game of basketball.  At like 90 he is still out there doing color for a lousy Pitt team and he is tenacious as ever rooting for the Panthers.  The Pittsburgh sports enthusiasts will surely miss Groat when he passes on.
  

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---------------

Believe it or Not!  In 1959 the Pirates almost traded Dick Groat for Roger Maris.
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #16 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 1:13pm
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Is there a better two sport athlete from Pittsburgh than Groat?
  
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #17 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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Bucs Fan in GA wrote on Nov 7th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Just Curious...What is the take on Groat's time as a Bucco? Any one have any feedback?

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As far as I know, Groat was always very highly regarded as a Pirate. Career .290 hitter in 9 years with them, topping .300 3 times, winning a batting title and winning MVP in 1960. Excellent bat control. rarely struck out and excelled at the hit and run and sac bunts. Murtaugh named him team captain. And when Groat's wrist was broken in early September 1960, there was great concern that winning the pennant was in jeopardy. At least one rival manager said at that time that Groat was the glue that held the Pirates together and the player they could least afford to lose. Groat was very popular and a lot of people were very disappointed when he was traded. Groat wasn't fast and didn't have great range but was very steady and a good DP partner for Maz.

A few facts about his 1960 season: Although he missed most of September, he still had 186 hits which was 2nd only to Willie Mays' 190 in the NL. With all those hits, Groat's longest hitting streak in 1960 was only 11 games. But he had 1 or more hit in 98 of the 137 games in which he batted (72%). His longest hitless streak that year was only 3 games and happened only 3 times. During the season he had a 6-hit game, a 5-hit games and 6 4-hit games. And after missing 3 weeks with the broken wrist, he returned to start the final 2 games of the season to test his pained, atrophied wrist and went 3 for 9. Groat was highly regarded throughout the NL, which was why St.L wanted him to solidify their team. The Cards knew Joe Brown had coveted Don Cardwell for several years, having unsuccessfully tried to obtain him in 1960 before finally trading for Mizell. The Cards obtained Cardwell from the Cubs in 10/62 and flipped him a month later to Brown for Groat.    
  
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #18 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 2:02pm
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Guys thanks for the report on Dick Groat. I really appreciated hearing all the positive things about Dick Groat.

I too read years ago in the Tribune or Post of Groat's first love being basketball. He played in the NBA for season with the Detroit Pistons in 1952.

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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #19 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 2:06pm
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Bobster, Thanks for the note on Don Cardwell. Blast from the past. I well recall him! He was a good pitcher too! He sure added some veteran presence to the 1969 Mets starting rotation of Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, Gary Gentry, Don Cardwell and Jim McAndrew.... Cheesy
  
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #20 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 2:46pm
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Bucs Fan in GA wrote on Nov 7th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobster, Thanks for the note on Don Cardwell. Blast from the past. I well recall him! He was a good pitcher too! He sure added some veteran presence to the 1969 Mets starting rotation of Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, Gary Gentry, Don Cardwell and Jim McAndrew.... Cheesy 

Cardwell is the only pitcher to throw a no-hitter in his first game after being traded. Bucs knew in ST 1960 that they needed a 4th starter (Kline had been dealt). They tried to get Cardwell from Phillies who wanted a catcher and 2Bman. Speculation was that Brown may have offered Danny Kravitz and Schofield but Cardwell went to Cubs for Tony Taylor and Cal Neeman on 5/13/60. Two days later he made his Cubs debut and no-hit St.L. Bennie Daniels didn't work out as 4th starter so the Mizell trade was made on 5/28/60.
  
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #21 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 3:04pm
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I had in my memory that Cardwell was not a success with Bucs.  But he did have 2 good seasons as a starter, one bad one and one that he missed due to injury.

Does anybody know what his injury was in 1954 (only pitched 19 innings vs. over 200 in 1963 and 1965.

He was dealt for Dennis Ribant who was a starter for one year and then dealt to Tigers for Dave Wickersham (whose career turned out to be about over (as was Ribant's).
  
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #22 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 3:45pm
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Ecbucs wrote on Nov 7th, 2018 at 3:04pm:
I had in my memory that Cardwell was not a success with Bucs.  But he did have 2 good seasons as a starter, one bad one and one that he mishttp://onlybucs.net/board/cgi-bin/onlybucs/YaBB.pl?board=generalsed due to injury.

Does anybody know what his injury was in 1954 (only pitched 19 innings vs. over 200 in 1963 and 1965.

He was dealt for Dennis Ribant who was a starter for one year and then dealt to Tigers for Dave Wickersham (whose career turned out to be about over (as was Ribant's). 

Cardwell was 13-15 in 1963 with a 3.07 ERA. 4 of his losses were 2-1, 2-0, 3-2 and 3-0. So with better run support that 13-15 might have been 17-11. But he hurt his shoulder in 1964 and missed most of the season. He rebounded in 1965 pitching 240 innings with a 13-10 record and 3.18 ERA. 4 of those losses were 3-2, 1-0, 1-0 and 3-2. So again, he might have won 17 with better support. He began 1966 in the rotation but was inconsistent and spent the 2nd half of the season in the BP.
  
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Re: Another Bucs Trivia Question
Reply #23 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 3:48pm
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Man, I love hearing the ins and outs of the 1960 team. I was only 3 years old at the time, so I wasn't following the Bucs like I do now...I appreciate you fellow Pirate fans for sharing your wealth of Bucco Lore with me Cool

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