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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Archer/Kela phase 1 (Read 776 times)
pghpaulatl
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #15 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am
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We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?
  
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IABucFan
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #16 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:35am
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pghpaulatl wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am:
We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?


It's not so much to boost attendance...it's to boost ratings. Splitting hairs maybe, but it's a key point. Money in baseball is tied up in TV contracts. I've said this before, but at the end of the day, MLB doesn't really care about how many butts are in seats. Heck, a couple of years ago, the Rays and Orioles LITERALLY played a game in front of zero fans. But, they care very much about how many eyes watch on TV. I'm hopeful that Nutting can see the benefit of investing in some marquee players. The return on that investment in a potential TV contract could be quite lucrative. Now, I don't seriously think the Pirates will be in on Machado, Harper, or Corbin. But, I am actually hoping for a bigger than normal splash (by Pirates standards) this year. Maybe not necessarily via the FA route, but perhaps via trade and taking on a bigger salaried player.
  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #17 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:46am
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IABucFan wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:35am:
pghpaulatl wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am:
We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?


It's not so much to boost attendance...it's to boost ratings. Splitting hairs maybe, but it's a key point. Money in baseball is tied up in TV contracts. I've said this before, but at the end of the day, MLB doesn't really care about how many butts are in seats. Heck, a couple of years ago, the Rays and Orioles LITERALLY played a game in front of zero fans. But, they care very much about how many eyes watch on TV. I'm hopeful that Nutting can see the benefit of investing in some marquee players. The return on that investment in a potential TV contract could be quite lucrative. Now, I don't seriously think the Pirates will be in on Machado, Harper, or Corbin. But, I am actually hoping for a bigger than normal splash (by Pirates standards) this year. Maybe not necessarily via the FA route, but perhaps via trade and taking on a bigger salaried player.


I hope for some sort of splash move too but I could see Neal saying in spring training that he made the big move when he dealt for Archer.  Hope I am wrong. 

With luck the salaries that Machado, Harper and Kershaw and  a couple others get take up most of the big boys free agent money.
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #18 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:03am
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Ecbucs wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:46am:
IABucFan wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:35am:
pghpaulatl wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am:
We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?


It's not so much to boost attendance...it's to boost ratings. Splitting hairs maybe, but it's a key point. Money in baseball is tied up in TV contracts. I've said this before, but at the end of the day, MLB doesn't really care about how many butts are in seats. Heck, a couple of years ago, the Rays and Orioles LITERALLY played a game in front of zero fans. But, they care very much about how many eyes watch on TV. I'm hopeful that Nutting can see the benefit of investing in some marquee players. The return on that investment in a potential TV contract could be quite lucrative. Now, I don't seriously think the Pirates will be in on Machado, Harper, or Corbin. But, I am actually hoping for a bigger than normal splash (by Pirates standards) this year. Maybe not necessarily via the FA route, but perhaps via trade and taking on a bigger salaried player.


I hope for some sort of splash move too but I could see Neal saying in spring training that he made the big move when he dealt for Archer.  Hope I am wrong. 

With luck the salaries that Machado, Harper and Kershaw and  a couple others get take up most of the big boys free agent money.

It's all about profit with Nutting. Maybe someone has data on it but I haven't heard that they lost money or even stopped profiting since their last post season appearance in 2015. Attendance went way down but so did payroll. Nutting is too shrewd a businessman to not plan for reduced revenue to accompany the deliberate change of direction after 2015. And that was when they were locked into a poor TV deal (by most accounts other than Coonelly). The new TV deal becomes the key factor at this point. And what goes into those negotiations? I doubt AT&T Sports gets any assurances that Nutting will upgrade the talent to some degree. That would seem difficult if not impossible to enforce. So does the new TV deal provide only modest increases in revenue? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But I don't see the new deal being any kind of windfall or Nutting making any impact moves to sweeten the deal.   
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #19 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 11:29am
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Bobster wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:03am:
Ecbucs wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:46am:
IABucFan wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:35am:
pghpaulatl wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am:
We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?


It's not so much to boost attendance...it's to boost ratings. Splitting hairs maybe, but it's a key point. Money in baseball is tied up in TV contracts. I've said this before, but at the end of the day, MLB doesn't really care about how many butts are in seats. Heck, a couple of years ago, the Rays and Orioles LITERALLY played a game in front of zero fans. But, they care very much about how many eyes watch on TV. I'm hopeful that Nutting can see the benefit of investing in some marquee players. The return on that investment in a potential TV contract could be quite lucrative. Now, I don't seriously think the Pirates will be in on Machado, Harper, or Corbin. But, I am actually hoping for a bigger than normal splash (by Pirates standards) this year. Maybe not necessarily via the FA route, but perhaps via trade and taking on a bigger salaried player.


I hope for some sort of splash move too but I could see Neal saying in spring training that he made the big move when he dealt for Archer.  Hope I am wrong. 

With luck the salaries that Machado, Harper and Kershaw and  a couple others get take up most of the big boys free agent money.

It's all about profit with Nutting. Maybe someone has data on it but I haven't heard that they lost money or even stopped profiting since their last post season appearance in 2015. Attendance went way down but so did payroll. Nutting is too shrewd a businessman to not plan for reduced revenue to accompany the deliberate change of direction after 2015. And that was when they were locked into a poor TV deal (by most accounts other than Coonelly). The new TV deal becomes the key factor at this point. And what goes into those negotiations? I doubt AT&T Sports gets any assurances that Nutting will upgrade the talent to some degree. That would seem difficult if not impossible to enforce. So does the new TV deal provide only modest increases in revenue? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But I don't see the new deal being any kind of windfall or Nutting making any impact moves to sweeten the deal.   



Is there competition among broadcasters to get rights to Pirate games?
  
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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #20 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:39pm
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Bobster wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:03am:
Ecbucs wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:46am:
IABucFan wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:35am:
pghpaulatl wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am:
We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?


It's not so much to boost attendance...it's to boost ratings. Splitting hairs maybe, but it's a key point. Money in baseball is tied up in TV contracts. I've said this before, but at the end of the day, MLB doesn't really care about how many butts are in seats. Heck, a couple of years ago, the Rays and Orioles LITERALLY played a game in front of zero fans. But, they care very much about how many eyes watch on TV. I'm hopeful that Nutting can see the benefit of investing in some marquee players. The return on that investment in a potential TV contract could be quite lucrative. Now, I don't seriously think the Pirates will be in on Machado, Harper, or Corbin. But, I am actually hoping for a bigger than normal splash (by Pirates standards) this year. Maybe not necessarily via the FA route, but perhaps via trade and taking on a bigger salaried player.


I hope for some sort of splash move too but I could see Neal saying in spring training that he made the big move when he dealt for Archer.  Hope I am wrong. 

With luck the salaries that Machado, Harper and Kershaw and  a couple others get take up most of the big boys free agent money.

It's all about profit with Nutting. Maybe someone has data on it but I haven't heard that they lost money or even stopped profiting since their last post season appearance in 2015. Attendance went way down but so did payroll. Nutting is too shrewd a businessman to not plan for reduced revenue to accompany the deliberate change of direction after 2015. And that was when they were locked into a poor TV deal (by most accounts other than Coonelly). The new TV deal becomes the key factor at this point. And what goes into those negotiations? I doubt AT&T Sports gets any assurances that Nutting will upgrade the talent to some degree. That would seem difficult if not impossible to enforce. So does the new TV deal provide only modest increases in revenue? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But I don't see the new deal being any kind of windfall or Nutting making any impact moves to sweeten the deal.   


Payroll has actually been fairly consistent between 2015 and now (before this season). 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/pittsburgh-pirates/payroll/

At least going by "total adjusted salary" it's been between 98-100MM.
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #21 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 1:42pm
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SammyKhalifa wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Bobster wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:03am:
Ecbucs wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:46am:
IABucFan wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:35am:
pghpaulatl wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:50am:
We have "history" to speak to why they will not increase payroll much if at all?
This is the First Time in many years they are negotiating a TV contract, with that they also need "something" to boost attendance.
I know I'm in the minority here, but what can that be other than spending money to create excitement?


It's not so much to boost attendance...it's to boost ratings. Splitting hairs maybe, but it's a key point. Money in baseball is tied up in TV contracts. I've said this before, but at the end of the day, MLB doesn't really care about how many butts are in seats. Heck, a couple of years ago, the Rays and Orioles LITERALLY played a game in front of zero fans. But, they care very much about how many eyes watch on TV. I'm hopeful that Nutting can see the benefit of investing in some marquee players. The return on that investment in a potential TV contract could be quite lucrative. Now, I don't seriously think the Pirates will be in on Machado, Harper, or Corbin. But, I am actually hoping for a bigger than normal splash (by Pirates standards) this year. Maybe not necessarily via the FA route, but perhaps via trade and taking on a bigger salaried player.


I hope for some sort of splash move too but I could see Neal saying in spring training that he made the big move when he dealt for Archer.  Hope I am wrong. 

With luck the salaries that Machado, Harper and Kershaw and  a couple others get take up most of the big boys free agent money.

It's all about profit with Nutting. Maybe someone has data on it but I haven't heard that they lost money or even stopped profiting since their last post season appearance in 2015. Attendance went way down but so did payroll. Nutting is too shrewd a businessman to not plan for reduced revenue to accompany the deliberate change of direction after 2015. And that was when they were locked into a poor TV deal (by most accounts other than Coonelly). The new TV deal becomes the key factor at this point. And what goes into those negotiations? I doubt AT&T Sports gets any assurances that Nutting will upgrade the talent to some degree. That would seem difficult if not impossible to enforce. So does the new TV deal provide only modest increases in revenue? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But I don't see the new deal being any kind of windfall or Nutting making any impact moves to sweeten the deal.   


Payroll has actually been fairly consistent between 2015 and now (before this season). 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/pittsburgh-pirates/payroll/

At least going by "total adjusted salary" it's been between 98-100MM.

The figures I've seen show opening day payroll in 2015 of 88.2 mil, 2016-85.8, 2017-91.4 and and for 2018 I've seen differing reports of 84.5 or 87.8. Even if payroll remained pretty much the same after the 98 win season of 2015, it seemed like a slap in the face to the fans when the expected upgrade from Pedro at 1B turned out to be converted part time catcher John Jaso, Happ was replaced by Vogelsong, and Morton was replaced by Niese who was obtained for Walker. Instead of putting a little more money into the team to build upon a great season, the talent level was immediately diluted. And attendance has steadily declined each year since. But I can't believe this came as a surprise to Nutting and his bean counters. I believe it is more likely they factored in the anticipated attendance drop to estimate revenue vs operational costs.
  
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pghpaulatl
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #22 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 3:23pm
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Good points, Jaso, Niese and Vogelsong were not the answer and we all knew that. I really think that is why we'll see a lot better this off season.

That TV contract looms large and is a great opportunity for Nut to keep the Bucs solvent for many years as well as fill his pockets. I think that is why they go big this off season.
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #23 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 4:00pm
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Would the Pirates go high risk high reward as the Yanks have left it be known they are planning to deal Sonny Gray.  Do you do a Nova for Gray swap if you are the Bucs?
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #24 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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SCBucco wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Would the Pirates go high risk high reward as the Yanks have left it be known they are planning to deal Sonny Gray.  Do you do a Nova for Gray swap if you are the Bucs?


if I was the Bucs I wouldn't hesitate to make that deal. 


  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #25 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 5:05pm
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SCBucco wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Would the Pirates go high risk high reward as the Yanks have left it be known they are planning to deal Sonny Gray.  Do you do a Nova for Gray swap if you are the Bucs?

Yep
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #26 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 5:41pm
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We want Sony Gray but do the Yanks want Nova?  Think not.
  

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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #27 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 11:08am
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Possum wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 5:41pm:
We want Sony Gray but do the Yanks want Nova?  Think not.


Nova seems to be a guy that pitched better than Gray this year.  Gray only has one more year left.  They won't get much in return for him as his stock plummeted.
  
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Re: Archer/Kela phase 1
Reply #28 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 2:21pm
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SCBucco wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 11:08am:
Possum wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 5:41pm:
We want Sony Gray but do the Yanks want Nova?  Think not.


Nova seems to be a guy that pitched better than Gray this year.  Gray only has one more year left.  They won't get much in return for him as his stock plummeted.

it has plummeted but I bet other teams will look at his home road splits and figure he is good bounceback candidate.
  
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