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fjk090852-7
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Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:23pm
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Initially I agree that Marte is the Bucs best centerfielder, base stealer and does provide some pop in the lineup. Notwithstanding do the Pirates attempt to trade him this offseason with the idea to bring back a couple players who could give them some additional hitting in the everyday lineup. I think we agree the Pirates should have a strong pitching staff in 2019, but they need more offense. Don’t weaken the pitching to acquire a bat or two, but possibly dealing Marte can bring the Pirates some additional hitters.
  
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Bobster
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:45pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:23pm:
Initially I agree that Marte is the Bucs best centerfielder, base stealer and does provide some pop in the lineup. Notwithstanding do the Pirates attempt to trade him this offseason with the idea to bring back a couple players who could give them some additional hitting in the everyday lineup. I think we agree the Pirates should have a strong pitching staff in 2019, but they need more offense. Don’t weaken the pitching to acquire a bat or two, but possibly dealing Marte can bring the Pirates some additional hitters.

I don't see such a trade happening. If they acquire "a bat or two," one of those bats would have to replace the offense Marte provides. I don't see any team giving up so much that Marte's offense, which is one of the better ones on the team, is replaced by one player and another player adds significantly more offense.

I suspect they will sink or swim with what they've got from among Bell, Frazier, Cervelli, Diaz, Moran, Kramer, Newman , Dickerson, Marte, Polanco and Luplow.
  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:23pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:23pm:
Initially I agree that Marte is the Bucs best centerfielder, base stealer and does provide some pop in the lineup. Notwithstanding do the Pirates attempt to trade him this offseason with the idea to bring back a couple players who could give them some additional hitting in the everyday lineup. I think we agree the Pirates should have a strong pitching staff in 2019, but they need more offense. Don’t weaken the pitching to acquire a bat or two, but possibly dealing Marte can bring the Pirates some additional hitters.


who would play center?

The holes in offense are at third, first, second and short.

A lot depends upon how the Pirates evaluate the players they have.

Can Bell hit with power or does the team need to find someone for first?

What do they think of Frazier, Newman and Kramer?  Can they fill spots at second and short and be decent offensive players?


What do they do with Dickerson and Polanco? 

My guess is both are starting in 2019.

Third base - seems to be the place to improve.  But do the Bucs roll the dice with Moran and Kang for 2019?

There are a lot of unknowns going into 2019 at this stage.
  
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SCBucco
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:41pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:23pm:
Initially I agree that Marte is the Bucs best centerfielder, base stealer and does provide some pop in the lineup. Notwithstanding do the Pirates attempt to trade him this offseason with the idea to bring back a couple players who could give them some additional hitting in the everyday lineup. I think we agree the Pirates should have a strong pitching staff in 2019, but they need more offense. Don’t weaken the pitching to acquire a bat or two, but possibly dealing Marte can bring the Pirates some additional hitters.


Marte doesn't bring back bats that provide immediate help.  He brings back prospects that either will or won't make it in the majors.  There is no reason to deal him.
  
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ScottinMass
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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Ecbucs wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:23pm:
fjk090852-7 wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 3:23pm:
Initially I agree that Marte is the Bucs best centerfielder, base stealer and does provide some pop in the lineup. Notwithstanding do the Pirates attempt to trade him this offseason with the idea to bring back a couple players who could give them some additional hitting in the everyday lineup. I think we agree the Pirates should have a strong pitching staff in 2019, but they need more offense. Don’t weaken the pitching to acquire a bat or two, but possibly dealing Marte can bring the Pirates some additional hitters.


who would play center?

The holes in offense are at third, first, second and short.

A lot depends upon how the Pirates evaluate the players they have.

Can Bell hit with power or does the team need to find someone for first?

What do they think of Frazier, Newman and Kramer?  Can they fill spots at second and short and be decent offensive players?


What do they do with Dickerson and Polanco? 

My guess is both are starting in 2019.

Third base - seems to be the place to improve.  But do the Bucs roll the dice with Moran and Kang for 2019?

There are a lot of unknowns going into 2019 at this stage.

They may bring him back on a more team friendly deal, but I can't see any way the PBC picks up Kang's $5.5M option for next year
  
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Babe Adams
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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Looks like he'll make it to 140 games played for just the second time. The HBPs have always  been a concern, they're down this year but shouldn't be forgotten.  A big part of their strategy this year should have been rebuilding some value for Marte, Polanco, and Cervelli.  They missed the boat with the latter two, but if they can get some young value for Marte they should grab it.
  

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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:26pm
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A trade of Marte would mean giving up (at least in public opinion) on 2019. There would be some squawking. People that didn't lose interest after McCutchen was traded would lose interest now, meaning even less seats in the seats. I can see some logic to a trade of that sort if you felt 2019 was a lost cause and wanted to build for 2020 or 2021, etc.; not if they think they can compete now. Remember, they thought they could compete this year - they'll certainly think they can next year. And they do love to roll the dice with reclamation projects.
  
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 6:29pm
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Though the Pirate offense is in obvious need of improvement the defense is below average. With a young pitching staff being relied upon next year to lead the way, weakening the defense by dealing Marte seems counterproductive to me.

Marte is not an offensive liability in CF; keep him and find a 3B who can provide power and decent defense. Moustakas or Davidson? Could Kramer hit well enough there? Has Kang exceeded his shelf life? Pray that Moran spends the off season putting on some muscle, and working with Brooks Robinson on his defense?

  

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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #8 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 7:38pm
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If you focus on an employee’s flaws or shortcomings more than their capabilities you would end up firing just about everyone.   Marte is far from perfect, but I think he is certainly better than average.

If the Bucs could trade him and make the team better I am all for it.   However, I think the opportunities of 1) moving him, and 2) making the Pirates better in the process, are minimal.

  
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ChitownBucco
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #9 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 9:16pm
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I don't think the offense needs much improvement. I don't think trading Marte would bring improvement anyways.

in 2015 the Bucs won 98 games with an offense that averaged 4.30 Runs scored per game with a .719 OPS


thus far in 2018 the bucs average 4.33 Runs scored per game with a .724 OPS



2015 ERA was 3.21  this years is 4.05

if the pitching improves like we suspect. The bucs could be pretty competitive with just a small upgrade in offense IMO
  
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skinnyhorse
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #10 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:42pm
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It is definitely time to move on from Marte.  The guy has worlds of talent but just doesn't have the intelligence to maximize his talents.  He's been given all the opportunity to succeed and he's fallen way short of what we need.  I really like Frazier and I think he could handle center field.  He has speed and gets a great jump on the ball and appears to have a decent arm.  Just must get some real return for him, and I'm not sure our GM has any idea about talent, probably he would get nothing in return.
  
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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #11 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:55am
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skinnyhorse wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:42pm:
It is definitely time to move on from Marte.  The guy has worlds of talent but just doesn't have the intelligence to maximize his talents.  He's been given all the opportunity to succeed and he's fallen way short of what we need.  I really like Frazier and I think he could handle center field.  He has speed and gets a great jump on the ball and appears to have a decent arm.  Just must get some real return for him, and I'm not sure our GM has any idea about talent, probably he would get nothing in return.

If every player on the team hit and fielded like Marte we would win a lot more games than we do now.
  
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #12 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:07am
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SammyKhalifa wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:55am:
skinnyhorse wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:42pm:
It is definitely time to move on from Marte.  The guy has worlds of talent but just doesn't have the intelligence to maximize his talents.  He's been given all the opportunity to succeed and he's fallen way short of what we need.  I really like Frazier and I think he could handle center field.  He has speed and gets a great jump on the ball and appears to have a decent arm.  Just must get some real return for him, and I'm not sure our GM has any idea about talent, probably he would get nothing in return.

If every player on the team hit and fielded like Marte we would win a lot more games than we do now.

I agree that Marte could be better. He seems to have mental lapses or just doesn't care. However, he is still one of their best players. Trading him would create a hole in the offense that likely could at best be filled by the player they would get for him, so it would be a wash. They won't get multiple players with enough offense to end up better after than before the trade. And they need to build on what they have; not continually look to get prospects for productive players for a future that never comes.   
  
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SammyKhalifa
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #13 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:22am
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Bobster wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:07am:
SammyKhalifa wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:55am:
skinnyhorse wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:42pm:
It is definitely time to move on from Marte.  The guy has worlds of talent but just doesn't have the intelligence to maximize his talents.  He's been given all the opportunity to succeed and he's fallen way short of what we need.  I really like Frazier and I think he could handle center field.  He has speed and gets a great jump on the ball and appears to have a decent arm.  Just must get some real return for him, and I'm not sure our GM has any idea about talent, probably he would get nothing in return.

If every player on the team hit and fielded like Marte we would win a lot more games than we do now.

I agree that Marte could be better. He seems to have mental lapses or just doesn't care. However, he is still one of their best players. Trading him would create a hole in the offense that likely could at best be filled by the player they would get for him, so it would be a wash. They won't get multiple players with enough offense to end up better after than before the trade. And they need to build on what they have; not continually look to get prospects for productive players for a future that never comes.   


Every player could be better though.  I think the main reason for people being down on Marte--and this is a very very good reason and I understand it--is the suspension. 
  
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notes34
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Re: Is It Time To Move On From Marte
Reply #14 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:30am
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Unless Marte can return a corner infielder that is well above average I say no way. He certainly has his flaws but he is still an impact player on this team.
  
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