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Carolina Bucco
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Such a typical Pirates series
Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:22pm
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This series with the Cardinals pretty much summarizes the Pirates season and the frustration of being a Pirates fan.

* Completely control and out-play the Cardinals 2 of 3.

* Win 1 of 3.

The Pirates have had so many series like that this year. Just blowing games left and right. I think back to the series in Milwaukee a few weeks back, the "walk the opposing pitcher in the 15th inning game." If the Pirates hadn't botched that game completely, they would have won 2 of 3 instead of 1 of 3.

So many losses like that. Add'em all up and just win SOME of them, and this team could easily be 9 games over .500 instead of 1 game under.

The mark of a bad team ... so many in excusable (and costly) losses.

  
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Carolina Bucco
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:23pm
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One more thing ...

Another superb outing by Taillon today. Tremendous.

Pirates lead MLB in team ERA since July 8 ... just a shame the team hasn't been able to take advantage of incredibly good pitching because of rotten offense and so many late-game screw-ups.

A real missed opportunity ...
  
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SCBucco
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:42pm
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Carolina Bucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:23pm:
One more thing ...

Another superb outing by Taillon today. Tremendous.

Pirates lead MLB in team ERA since July 8 ... just a shame the team hasn't been able to take advantage of incredibly good pitching because of rotten offense and so many late-game screw-ups.

A real missed opportunity ...


This is what gives me some hope for next year.  At the beginning of the year, I maintained I saw a #2 and a bunch of 4s, 5s and 6s in this rotation.  If JT, Williams can remain status quo for 2019; Musgrove improves a bit and Nova is somewhat consistent, then we might have something.
  
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Osushawn
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 5:00pm
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Carolina Bucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:23pm:
One more thing ...

Another superb outing by Taillon today. Tremendous.

Pirates lead MLB in team ERA since July 8 ... just a shame the team hasn't been able to take advantage of incredibly good pitching because of rotten offense and so many late-game screw-ups.

A real missed opportunity ...


It's pretty obvious that the pitching improvements came about because Hurdle gave them the extra day off during the San Fran series
  
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MaineBucs
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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Didn't see the game, but in looking at the box score, really nice to see the AAA players contribute so importantly to the win.  Particularly good to see Luplow positively respond to being inserted in the clean-up position. 

Luplow needs more playing time the rest of the season over Dickerson.  He needs more ab's.
  
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UtahPirate
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Carolina Bucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:22pm:
This series with the Cardinals pretty much summarizes the Pirates season and the frustration of being a Pirates fan.

* Completely control and out-play the Cardinals 2 of 3.

* Win 1 of 3.

The Pirates have had so many series like that this year. Just blowing games left and right. I think back to the series in Milwaukee a few weeks back, the "walk the opposing pitcher in the 15th inning game." If the Pirates hadn't botched that game completely, they would have won 2 of 3 instead of 1 of 3.

So many losses like that. Add'em all up and just win SOME of them, and this team could easily be 9 games over .500 instead of 1 game under.

The mark of a bad team ... so many in excusable (and costly) losses.



Not so sure about the mark of a bad team. I'd prefer, looks like a team that is learning to win.

We're a pretty interesting mix of fairly experienced players and young guys. Remember that to start the season this board was freaking out over the rotation. Now, going into 2019, they look to be our strength. That's what a full year of MLB experience and growth does.

And the bullpen, for the most part, has come a long way. Crick and Santana both played major roles. Rodriguez surprised everyone. All were first full season players. And adding Kela looks to really solidify the pen. Right now we are giving a few relief guys a chance to prove themselves, and it costs us. But we look to be solid in 2019.

Pitching has come a long ways. This is a much better team in a lot of ways than the one that started the season. I don't think it's a "bad" group either.

Honestly, some of these losses remind me of the 2012 Pirates when we were all so anxious to break the losing streak. Lots of frustrating losses that year. But we had a lineup that really grew into 2013.

  
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #6 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 7:34pm
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I'm critical of Hurdle for being a bad manager but I have to give him credit today for bringing in Vazquez in the 8th and pitching 2 innings. Ahead 4-1 in the bottom of the 8th with 2 on and no outs, that was the make or break inning to determine the outcome of the game. Hurdle went to his best instead of saving Vazquez for a 9th inning save. Vazquez ended up going 2 innings and getting the save anyway. But a save is merely a stat. All that really matters is whether they win or lose. Good for Hurdle for making the best decision to win the game.
  
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BenM
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #7 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 8:08pm
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Bobster wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
I'm critical of Hurdle for being a bad manager but I have to give him credit today for bringing in Vazquez in the 8th and pitching 2 innings. Ahead 4-1 in the bottom of the 8th with 2 on and no outs, that was the make or break inning to determine the outcome of the game. Hurdle went to his best instead of saving Vazquez for a 9th inning save. Vazquez ended up going 2 innings and getting the save anyway. But a save is merely a stat. All that really matters is whether they win or lose. Good for Hurdle for making the best decision to win the game.


Did the Bucs shut down Keone Kela for the season? He hasn't pitched since September third.
  
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #8 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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Thinking of the BP in 2019.  With Vazquez, Kela, and Santana as the back of the end of the BP would it be a good thing to use Vazquez in the mold of Andrew Miller of the Indians?  Then Santana and or Kela can finish up the game.  Just sayin'
  

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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 10:49pm
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SCBucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:42pm:
Carolina Bucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:23pm:
One more thing ...

Another superb outing by Taillon today. Tremendous.

Pirates lead MLB in team ERA since July 8 ... just a shame the team hasn't been able to take advantage of incredibly good pitching because of rotten offense and so many late-game screw-ups.

A real missed opportunity ...


This is what gives me some hope for next year.  At the beginning of the year, I maintained I saw a #2 and a bunch of 4s, 5s and 6s in this rotation.  If JT, Williams can remain status quo for 2019; Musgrove improves a bit and Nova is somewhat consistent, then we might have something.

It's impossible to look to the future with Hurdle at the helm.  The guy just doesn't put a premium on wins.  It's like if you win 5 in a row that's pretty good so what if you lose a couple gosh we just won 5 in a row we're doing good 5 out of 7.  He doesn't understand that the game Monday night was very winnable but it just wasn't that important to him.  With a manager like that it doesn't matter what kind of players we have it's never going to produce a winning team for the Pirates.  Sad but that's my opinion.
  
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #10 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 8:18am
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skinnyhorse wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 10:49pm:
SCBucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:42pm:
Carolina Bucco wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 4:23pm:
One more thing ...

Another superb outing by Taillon today. Tremendous.

Pirates lead MLB in team ERA since July 8 ... just a shame the team hasn't been able to take advantage of incredibly good pitching because of rotten offense and so many late-game screw-ups.

A real missed opportunity ...


This is what gives me some hope for next year.  At the beginning of the year, I maintained I saw a #2 and a bunch of 4s, 5s and 6s in this rotation.  If JT, Williams can remain status quo for 2019; Musgrove improves a bit and Nova is somewhat consistent, then we might have something.

It's impossible to look to the future with Hurdle at the helm.  The guy just doesn't put a premium on wins.  It's like if you win 5 in a row that's pretty good so what if you lose a couple gosh we just won 5 in a row we're doing good 5 out of 7.  He doesn't understand that the game Monday night was very winnable but it just wasn't that important to him.  With a manager like that it doesn't matter what kind of players we have it's never going to produce a winning team for the Pirates.  Sad but that's my opinion.

I agree with skinnyhorse. Of course the problem goes deeper than Hurdle. He and NH seem to work in concert. NH was the one who had to make the roster move to call up Holmes for that infamous decision. NH said that move had been planned for a long time. Hurdle has had very little success in his mgr career. Only 1 winning season in 8 yrs in Colorado and that team was barely at .500 in mid September before going on an unbelievable streak. But the Rockies ownership was not fooled by 1 amazing half month and fired him less than 2 years later when the losing continued. He's had 3 winning seasons in 8 years with the Pirates and often punts on games. So he's not trying all that hard to win. But after stumbling and bumbling thru the previous 2 years, he and NH received joint 4-year extensions. They are definitely working as a team. We can look at the projected roster for 2019 and speculate on how their talent will match up but they are so routinely mismanaged that whatever talent they have is subverted by their own management.
  
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #11 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 8:27am
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BenM wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 8:08pm:
Bobster wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
I'm critical of Hurdle for being a bad manager but I have to give him credit today for bringing in Vazquez in the 8th and pitching 2 innings. Ahead 4-1 in the bottom of the 8th with 2 on and no outs, that was the make or break inning to determine the outcome of the game. Hurdle went to his best instead of saving Vazquez for a 9th inning save. Vazquez ended up going 2 innings and getting the save anyway. But a save is merely a stat. All that really matters is whether they win or lose. Good for Hurdle for making the best decision to win the game.


Did the Bucs shut down Keone Kela for the season? He hasn't pitched since September third.


In an article by Rob Biertempfel in The Athletic this week it was mentioned that Pirate management has decided to shut down Kela to limit his innings for the year. Whether that is for the rest of the season or not wasn't clear.
  

"In baseball, you don't know nothing."-  Yogi Berra
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #12 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 11:56am
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Quail wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 8:27am:
BenM wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 8:08pm:
Bobster wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
I'm critical of Hurdle for being a bad manager but I have to give him credit today for bringing in Vazquez in the 8th and pitching 2 innings. Ahead 4-1 in the bottom of the 8th with 2 on and no outs, that was the make or break inning to determine the outcome of the game. Hurdle went to his best instead of saving Vazquez for a 9th inning save. Vazquez ended up going 2 innings and getting the save anyway. But a save is merely a stat. All that really matters is whether they win or lose. Good for Hurdle for making the best decision to win the game.


Did the Bucs shut down Keone Kela for the season? He hasn't pitched since September third.


In an article by Rob Biertempfel in The Athletic this week it was mentioned that Pirate management has decided to shut down Kela to limit his innings for the year. Whether that is for the rest of the season or not wasn't clear.


First time the Biertempfel had a somewhat confusing article in The Athletic.  Maybe the Bucs just did not make it clear.  Outside of his rookie season when he pitched 60 innings he has averaged like 36 innings in 16 & 17.  He has pitched 52 innings in 2018.  Maybe his arm is tired but heck you need to see him pitch to determine that.  Its all confusing to me the way Clint manages this team.
  

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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #13 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 12:34pm
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I know that players are the ones who hit and pitch and that we need more good players.  That said, if you told me that I had only 1 opportunity to make a choice for next year's team, I am at the point of replacing Hurdle as my top choice.  The team needs new on-field direction.
  
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Re: Such a typical Pirates series
Reply #14 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:49am
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MaineBucs wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
I know that players are the ones who hit and pitch and that we need more good players.  That said, if you told me that I had only 1 opportunity to make a choice for next year's team, I am at the point of replacing Hurdle as my top choice.  The team needs new on-field direction.


Yup. Whether a monkey drives either a Yugo or a Ferrari the results are going to be about the same, but it's harder to watch a Ferrari get totaled.
  

"In baseball, you don't know nothing."-  Yogi Berra
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