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JollyRoger
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Stats
Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:11pm
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Currently:
10 IP
5 hits
2 runs
3 BB
17Ks

Who is he?


If you guessed Tyler Glasnow you are right.
Those are his stats with TB so far through 3 inning today
We probably had our Ace all along.
Time will tell
  
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JollyRoger
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Re: Stats
Reply #1 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:42pm
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Update:
Through 5 innings today
Total with TB
12 IP
6 Hits
2 Runs
3 BB
20 Ks
  
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dmetz
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Re: Stats
Reply #2 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:48pm
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Dominant numbers.  He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results, and they're the first innings he has in Tampa?

Hope he keeps it going and Searage is finally replaced.
  
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JollyRoger
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Re: Stats
Reply #3 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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If Glasnow turns into the next J.R. Richard and given the success of Morton and Cole with the Astros; then the Bucs need to look long and hard at the coaching and talent evaluators.
I know this is a small sampling from Glasnow; but giving up on 3 arguably aces that could be starring for the Bucs is not acceptable
  
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Wrathchild
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Re: Stats
Reply #4 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:25pm
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I remarked on this board multiple times that Glasnow was pitching much better for the Pirates than his ERA suggested. It was clear to me than he was taking the brunt on poor infield defense more than most of our pitchers. I was disappointed he was traded.  Therefore, I don’t think this start in Tampa says a lot about Searage, but it may be indicative of Glasnow having an overall better situation in Tampa.
  
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Bobster
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Re: Stats
Reply #5 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:30pm
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The pitching coach in TB is 6'8" which might give him an edge in helping Glasnow.
  
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PMike
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Re: Stats
Reply #6 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:40pm
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dmetz wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
Dominant numbers.  He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results, and they're the first innings he has in Tampa?

Hope he keeps it going and Searage is finally replaced.   


I don't think it is Searage's fault that Glasnow goes there and immediately is successful.  I mean, if the coaching there had a chance to work with him and then he improved, that would be one thing.  TB has even admitted that they weren't messing with him until they had a chance to watch him pitch a little bit.  He just simply went to a new setting and has been dominant.  How is that Searage's fault?
  
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dmetz
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Re: Stats
Reply #7 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:04pm
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It's not worth arguing about over a 12 inning sample.   However they are the best consecutive 12 innings of his career!  I figure that's probable worth an eyebrow raise since they're the first 12 in a new organization.

As a general point of conversation what WOULD constitute grounds for changing the pitching coach?

"Uncle Ray" sure did get all the accolades with Burnett, Lirano, Vasquez, even Happ.  How does he get credit for Happ, who spent a hiccup of time here and avoid criticism if Glasnow becomes an ace right away?

Let's say Glasnow falls to pieces again, and then over the course of a season puts it all together and ends up TOR starter.   Since his success wasn't immediate, how about then?

How do you all know for sure it wasn't Jim Benedict the whole time, and not Searage at all?   The results certainly point to that as a possibility
« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13pm by dmetz »  
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Ecbucs
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Re: Stats
Reply #8 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13pm
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PMike wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:40pm:
dmetz wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
Dominant numbers.  He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results, and they're the first innings he has in Tampa?

Hope he keeps it going and Searage is finally replaced.   


I don't think it is Searage's fault that Glasnow goes there and immediately is successful.  I mean, if the coaching there had a chance to work with him and then he improved, that would be one thing.  TB has even admitted that they weren't messing with him until they had a chance to watch him pitch a little bit.  He just simply went to a new setting and has been dominant.  How is that Searage's fault?


I don't blame Searage either.  Maybe Glasnow needed a change to feel comfortable out there (not to say that it couldn't have happened some time in Pittsburgh as he has shown flashes).  If Glasnow does turn into a great pitcher for Rays though it brings into question the Bucs ability to identify and develop talent.

Last game Archer was ill, if he can turn into a top starter then it was worth dealing for him.  If the Bucs have not evaluated Archer correctly then that is a problem.
  
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dmetz
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Re: Stats
Reply #9 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:21pm
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PMike wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:40pm:
dmetz wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
Dominant numbers.  He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results, and they're the first innings he has in Tampa?

Hope he keeps it going and Searage is finally replaced.   


I don't think it is Searage's fault that Glasnow goes there and immediately is successful.  I mean, if the coaching there had a chance to work with him and then he improved, that would be one thing.  TB has even admitted that they weren't messing with him until they had a chance to watch him pitch a little bit.  He just simply went to a new setting and has been dominant.  How is that Searage's fault?


He already said he's been told to pitch differently.  Changing eye levels .   https://www.draysbay.com/2018/8/7/17653908/tyler-glasnow-tampa-bay-rays-starting...
  
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PMike
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Re: Stats
Reply #10 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 12:59am
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dmetz wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:21pm:
PMike wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:40pm:
dmetz wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
Dominant numbers.  He never had a stretch of that many innings here with those results, and they're the first innings he has in Tampa?

Hope he keeps it going and Searage is finally replaced.   


I don't think it is Searage's fault that Glasnow goes there and immediately is successful.  I mean, if the coaching there had a chance to work with him and then he improved, that would be one thing.  TB has even admitted that they weren't messing with him until they had a chance to watch him pitch a little bit.  He just simply went to a new setting and has been dominant.  How is that Searage's fault?


He already said he's been told to pitch differently.  Changing eye levels .   https://www.draysbay.com/2018/8/7/17653908/tyler-glasnow-tampa-bay-rays-starting...



Thanks for posting that link.  My response was really after hearing their manager speaking in game during Glasnow's first start (which I watched free on MLBTV).  He said then that they weren't messing with him at the time.

I'm an unabashed Glasnow fan.  I think it was a terrible move for them to include him in that trade.  I would have added any other prospect not named Keller in Glasnow's place.

OTOH, it was clear they had moved on from Glasnow.  Holmes and Kingham had both gotten starts over him before he was traded.

Many on here were glad to see him go and thought the Rays foolish for taking him.  I think it was a mistake that we couldn't find a place for him in the rotation and it was a mistake that we traded him.

To your point, I still think it is hard to blame Searage for his immediate success.  However, I understand the criticism.  The success Cole and Morton have had warrants the criticism of Searage.  The Pirates will deserve a ton of criticism if he goes on to be a dominant pitcher.  Pirates fans should feel very uncomfortable right now.  He has always had dominant stuff.  The Pirates couldn't figure out how to let him be successful.
  
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dmetz
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Re: Stats
Reply #11 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 5:27am
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I don't think it was a mistake to include him.   We have demonstrated substantial developmental problems when it comes to starting pitchers.   

It's hard to quantify until a starter leaves here, uses a different approach than our low in the zone, 2-seam, moar fastballs strategy... and succeeds

To me, you couldn't cook up a scenario that make our staff and developmental guys look more inept than a top prospect we're unable to squeeze any value from at all after years of trying going to another team and immediately realizing his potential.

It's like the dictionary definition of organizational incompetence, to me.  Cole and Morton, we got value from just not enough.   Not the case with TG
« Last Edit: Aug 13th, 2018 at 5:41am by dmetz »  
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Possum
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Re: Stats
Reply #12 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 7:21am
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I think we are seeing how Uncle Ray and the entire Bucs pitching gurus missed the boat with Glasnow.  Instead of working with him to harness his big tall frame and allow him to pitch how he feels best they insisted on their low ball pitching in order to get the ground ball with a less than good infield defense.  Tampa is allowing Glasnow to pitch with his strengths.  Uncle Ray and the Bucs need to think outside that low in the zone pitching philosophy when necessary.
  

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Bobster
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Re: Stats
Reply #13 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 7:47am
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Hard to know what to think of Searage. He's had success with veterans who were once good, lost it, and came on as reclamation projects. But he has much less success with young, developing pitchers, Cole was regressing for 2 years. Morton never lived up to expectations. Jeff Locke was a waste. But Taillon seems to be progressing well. Williams is pitching great now despite an inability to overpower hitters. Musgrove is doing well despite being terrible as a starter for Houston for half a season last year. Vazquez, Crick, Santana and Rodriguez are all young and doing well in the BP. Glasnow was supposed to have outstanding stuff and was unhittable in the minors yet couldn't make it with the Bucs. Always seemed to suffer greatly from lack of confidence. Seemed to want to avoid throwing the ball anywhere near the plate. Banished to the bullpen mostly for mop up duty. There could be no greater boost to his confidence than to have another team want to acquire him and immediately start him. Now he's going after hitters instead of trying to avoid them. So how much is the change due to a different pitching philosophy in TB? How much is due to him suddenly feeling confident on the mound? All of which makes it very difficult to assess both Glasnow and Searage.
  
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mouse
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Re: Stats
Reply #14 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 8:43am
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Particularly with Glasnow, who seemed to be gaining confidence in his last performances in Pittsburgh. It could just be an extenuation of that.
  
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