Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Let the rumor mill begin (Read 2176 times)
Possum
Forum Administrator
*****
Offline


Older Than Dirt!

Posts: 863
Location: Possum Holler, Pa
Joined: Jun 8th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #15 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:47am
Print Post  
JollyRoger wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 10:57pm:
The Yankees are going hard after Machado.
They are said to be also looking for bullpen help.
If the Yanks get Machado (Orioles want Sheffield), that would make Andujar available. Would you do an Andujar for Vasquez?
If so, what would you do with Moran?


Nice idea but the Yanks are looking for a starter to bolster their rotation.  Vazquez would be a duplication of Chapman.
  

It's A Great Day for Bucco Baseball

Possum

-------------

Summing up the Pirates chances of being competitive in 2018:  "It's like a horse race with Mr. Ed going against Secretariat"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dmetz
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1394
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #16 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:05am
Print Post  
JollyRoger wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 10:57pm:
The Yankees are going hard after Machado.
They are said to be also looking for bullpen help.
If the Yanks get Machado (Orioles want Sheffield), that would make Andujar available. Would you do an Andujar for Vasquez?
If so, what would you do with Moran?


I would put him at first base.  He's had some time there before.  I want to know if he can field it better than he can 3b and better than Bell can 1b.    If he can play average or just below average 1b (where his zero range and zero agility is perhaps better hidden), he possibly has a future as a regular or a long-side platoon regular. 

Others disagree with me, I know.  I disliked his inclusion in the Cole trade from the beginning because the only chance he had was if his "swing change" in half a AAA season held true to wash out his poor ancillary skills.     It hasn't at all, and his defense is much worse than advertised, thus making it even harder for him to be valuable.  He has effectively no chance as a starter at 3b, imo.   At least, no chance as a good one.     Switching to 1b may better hide glaring weaknesses.  At the very least, it would increase his positional flexibility as a bench player.   If he can play OK defense at 1b,  if his bat develops into a 120ish OPS+ vs RHP, he can be useful in a long side-platoon until an everyday solution is found.  Though that search has gone on almost uninterrupted for 30 years now?   Possibly more.

(Caveat:  The Cole Trade still has an OK chance of turning out for us.  Musgrove, I think and hope, has a real shot at something good, and Martin looks really, REALLY good)    
« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:17am by dmetz »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mouse
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 776
Joined: Jun 30th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #17 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:54am
Print Post  
I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SammyKhalifa
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 2204
Joined: Jul 1st, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #18 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:03am
Print Post  
mouse wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .


a few years ago (when we were winning) the defense was good.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bobster
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3105
Joined: Jun 10th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #19 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:07am
Print Post  
SammyKhalifa wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:03am:
mouse wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .


a few years ago (when we were winning) the defense was good.

Not when the ball was hit or thrown to Alvarez.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SammyKhalifa
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 2204
Joined: Jul 1st, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #20 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:17am
Print Post  
Bobster wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:07am:
SammyKhalifa wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:03am:
mouse wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .


a few years ago (when we were winning) the defense was good.

Not when the ball was hit or thrown to Alvarez.


Ha, true enough, and (before anyone cites sources) it's my perception that they were good.  I haven't dug into any metrics or anything so I'm sure there's something out there that says I'm wrong.  Probably a lot of it is due to early "shift" working out more than it does now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dmetz
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1394
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #21 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:24am
Print Post  
Bobster wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:07am:
SammyKhalifa wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 10:03am:
mouse wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .


a few years ago (when we were winning) the defense was good.

Not when the ball was hit or thrown to Alvarez.


True, we've got 2 Pedro's now, 1st and 3rd.  Also, a defensively sub-par shortstop (now) and Diaz getting a lot of time behind the plate.   

Some really bad news too.  Meadows?  Yeah, he's not a good outfielder either.  Small sample, but man... another prospect where the defense was way overhyped.  Cry

Hopefully Newman can field as advertised, and Hayes.   Who knows what's real and what's not   Trust nothing!  Grin      
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mouse
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 776
Joined: Jun 30th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #22 - Jul 15th, 2018 at 7:01am
Print Post  
I suspect this stretch leading up to today's (Sunday's) game has put NH in an awkward spot. He said he would let the next few games decide whether they become sellers, but clearly was planning on selling. With attendance as it is, he may have no choice. Will be interesting to see what he says now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bobster
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3105
Joined: Jun 10th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #23 - Jul 15th, 2018 at 8:06am
Print Post  
mouse wrote on Jul 15th, 2018 at 7:01am:
I suspect this stretch leading up to today's (Sunday's) game has put NH in an awkward spot. He said he would let the next few games decide whether they become sellers, but clearly was planning on selling. With attendance as it is, he may have no choice. Will be interesting to see what he says now.

He gave himself an out by saying even if they won most of the games in that stretch, they'd have to consider if they could sustain that success.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mouse
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 776
Joined: Jun 30th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #24 - Jul 15th, 2018 at 1:31pm
Print Post  
He is an elusive fellow. You have to admire that, as annoying as the double-speak otherwise can be.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SCBucco
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1018
Joined: Sep 13th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #25 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 6:22pm
Print Post  
I'm seeing people mention the Yanks and the Red Sox for Felipe.  Why?  The Yanks have Green, Betances and Chapman.  The last thing they need is a Vasquez.  Makes no sense and they wouldn't give up Andujar for him.  Boston?  Kimberly and Thorburn is back.  No need there.  If there are designs to maximize a deal for Vazquez, (I wouldn't deal him), I'd call Houston and bend them over.  I'd ask for Perez, a lefty starter from Cuba and Alvarez.  That is a hefty price, but you could get one of them in a package.

I don't think this ownership or FO will add anything good.  Despite the recent surge, this team isn't a playoff team and is still far away.  Still think they will move assets.

One thought I have is the Yanks are courting Machado and if they want him, they will have to give up major prospects.  They still need a starter.  I'm not sure they go for this, but offer Nova straight up for Simon Gray.  Still young and controllable for a few more years ... I think he is suffering from Jeff Weaver disease.  You know, pitch well in small market with less pressure and then fold when dealt/signed by the Yanks.  Nova is better than Gray right now.  He knows the deal in NY too.  He, Gray, would be a nice reclamation project and if it fails, you unload an inconsistent arm in Nova.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dmetz
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1394
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #26 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 6:32pm
Print Post  
I'd definitely like to see us strike while Vasquez has good value.  He's cost controlled for a lot of years and bullpen performance is fickle.  He could impode or his arm get hurt.   Remember his arm incident this year?

Let's not get caught in a decline and strike now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fjk090852-7
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 817
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #27 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 7:32pm
Print Post  
dmetz wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 6:32pm:
I'd definitely like to see us strike while Vasquez has good value.  He's cost controlled for a lot of years and bullpen performance is fickle.  He could impode or his arm get hurt.   Remember his arm incident this year?

Let's not get caught in a decline and strike now. 

There are many pros and cons for dealing Vasquez. He is controlled for several years on a team friendly contract. I agree relief pitchers have on and off seasons. He too could incur an arm injury. If the FO trades him, there will be a backlash from the fan base saying they don’t retain their better players. It is a darned if you deal him ,or darned if you don’t deal him. If they do deal him they better get the kings ransom in return, because he is going to help the team getting him advance in the postseason.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mouse
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 776
Joined: Jun 30th, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #28 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 8:03pm
Print Post  
A strong relief pitcher is a position teams are willing to overpay for, but you are right - at this point almost any trade is going to be a public relations nightmare. Of course, the way things have been handled recently one could make the argument they don't care about the public relations impact. I really thought with the attendance figures, they would be looking to dump contracts. I think now both Cervelli and Harrison wait until August.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dmetz
Elite Member
*****
Offline


OnlyBucs.net Member

Posts: 1394
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2016
Re: Let the rumor mill begin
Reply #29 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:25am
Print Post  
Well I doubt this week has much effect at all on whatever the plans were.   If they did, NH should have kept his mouth shut about the importance of the week.   

If we would have arrived at this same place in the standings, with this many teams ahead of us, in a leasiurely way instead of sweeping 5 from the first place Brewers, we would be selling off.   I hope we sell and win the trades doing it.   Moving on from JHay and Mercer and trying to get out from under Cervellis contract isn't what I mean
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Send TopicPrint