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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Departed (Read 2948 times)
Bobster
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Re: The Departed
Reply #405 - May 5th, 2018 at 10:29am
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Possum wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 10:23am:
Ngoepe is a great story but he was just too raw when signed and just could not get the hitting tool major league ready.  So glad I got to  experience a guy like Gift playing in the city where The Great One Played.

Seems like the Pirates like "making statements." They had the first South African, first Lithuanian, first South Korean power hitter and the first to sign players from India. None have worked out too well. Maybe they should try a genuine ballplayer from Japan or Cuba.
  
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fjk090852-7
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Re: The Departed
Reply #406 - May 6th, 2018 at 8:04am
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Alen Hanson had a big day for Giants yesterday with a double, homer and four rbi.
  
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Re: The Departed
Reply #407 - May 16th, 2018 at 5:04pm
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fjk090852-7 wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 8:04am:
Alen Hanson had a big day for Giants yesterday with a double, homer and four rbi.



3rd HR in last 8 games

total of 4 HR's in 47 official ab's this year
  
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Bobster
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Re: The Departed
Reply #408 - May 20th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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Re: The Departed
Reply #409 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:48pm
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Russell Martin playing shortstop for Toronto today.

https://www.mlb.com/news/russell-martin-to-play-shortstop/c-278396760
  
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Bobster
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Re: The Departed
Reply #410 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm
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Interesting article about why Cole is pitching better in Houston and how their staff showed him things about the use of his fastball that he wasn't aware of in Pittsburgh. Maybe Searage should take note.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23617078/mlb-qa-how-gerrit-cole-unlocked-pote...
  
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Dogknot3
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Re: The Departed
Reply #411 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:00pm
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Bobster wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm:
Interesting article about why Cole is pitching better in Houston and how their staff showed him things about the use of his fastball that he wasn't aware of in Pittsburgh. Maybe Searage should take note.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23617078/mlb-qa-how-gerrit-cole-unlocked-pote...


Interesting about playing catch with other pitchers. He did praise Searage and Benedict too.
  
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Bobster
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Re: The Departed
Reply #412 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:21pm
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Dogknot3 wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:00pm:
Bobster wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm:
Interesting article about why Cole is pitching better in Houston and how their staff showed him things about the use of his fastball that he wasn't aware of in Pittsburgh. Maybe Searage should take note.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23617078/mlb-qa-how-gerrit-cole-unlocked-pote...


Interesting about playing catch with other pitchers. He did praise Searage and Benedict too.

To be clear, he praised them for the level he achieved with the Pirates. He praised the Astros staff for getting him to another level. 
  
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Dogknot3
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Re: The Departed
Reply #413 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:56pm
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Bobster wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:21pm:
Dogknot3 wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:00pm:
Bobster wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm:
Interesting article about why Cole is pitching better in Houston and how their staff showed him things about the use of his fastball that he wasn't aware of in Pittsburgh. Maybe Searage should take note.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23617078/mlb-qa-how-gerrit-cole-unlocked-pote...


Interesting about playing catch with other pitchers. He did praise Searage and Benedict too.

To be clear, he praised them for the level he achieved with the Pirates. He praised the Astros staff for getting him to another level. 


The question was "Who helped you become the pitcher you are today?"  He mentioned both of those guys.
  
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Bobster
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Re: The Departed
Reply #414 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 10:10pm
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Dogknot3 wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Bobster wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:21pm:
Dogknot3 wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 9:00pm:
Bobster wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm:
Interesting article about why Cole is pitching better in Houston and how their staff showed him things about the use of his fastball that he wasn't aware of in Pittsburgh. Maybe Searage should take note.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23617078/mlb-qa-how-gerrit-cole-unlocked-pote...


Interesting about playing catch with other pitchers. He did praise Searage and Benedict too.

To be clear, he praised them for the level he achieved with the Pirates. He praised the Astros staff for getting him to another level. 


The question was "Who helped you become the pitcher you are today?"  He mentioned both of those guys.

Sure, he cited Searage and Benedict for helping him in Pittsburgh. But the article addresses why he has achieved a higher level with the Astros. Cole specifically cites what the Astros staff did to help him. Above and beyond what he learned with the Pirates. That's the point of the article. Let's not fall all over ourselves praising the Pirates for what the Astros did.
  
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Dogknot3
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Re: The Departed
Reply #415 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 11:00pm
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Why are you trying to knock Searage when he praised him? 

I'm actually surprised Cole said all those good things about Pittsburgh. He said their atmospheres are pretty similar too comparing Pittsburgh and Houston.
  
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Possum
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Re: The Departed
Reply #416 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 7:32am
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Dogknot3 wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 11:00pm:
Why are you trying to knock Searage when he praised him? 

I'm actually surprised Cole said all those good things about Pittsburgh. He said their atmospheres are pretty similar too comparing Pittsburgh and Houston.


I don't think Bobster is knocking Searage as much as you are being a apologist for Searage.  You make is seen that Searage can do no wrong and perhaps even walk on water. 

Bobster is instead saying that the Houston pitching coaches and perhaps the Astros pitching philosophy is different that ours and as a result they found something that they could teach Cole to really take him over the top and become the pitcher he was expected to be when drafted. 

This is not to say that Searage is not a very good pitching coach but it does question why Cole did not breakout (yes he did have one Cy Young caliber season) and become dominant like he has in 2018.  Could it be that the Buccos overall pitching philosophy is different from Houston's and thus Searage did miss something in Cole.
  

It's A Great Day for Bucco Baseball

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Summing up the Pirates chances of being competitive in 2018:  "It's like a horse race with Mr. Ed going against Secretariat"
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Bobster
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Re: The Departed
Reply #417 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 8:17am
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To be clear, I referenced the article that specifically explains what has been different about Cole's coaching in Houston. This is quite relevant to the issue of why he seems to have reached the potential there that he failed to do in Pittsburgh. So while Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict among those who were influential, he specifically detailed: 

"I used to throw a four-seam and the two-seam, and I used to probably lean on the two-seam almost 50 percent of the time or more. When I'd go into the room and have a meeting with them [the Astros coaching staff], they'd show me the data on my four-seam, and then they would show me what my best four-seams looked like. Like, they have video of it, and then they have statistics on it."

So it was the first time you've ever seen those stats?

"Yes, absolutely. They'd say here are the top 15 percent of the four-seams you've thrown your entire career, and this is what it looks like on the stat sheet; this is what the rotation looks like; this is what the ball looks like coming out of your hand. [They'd tell me] if you can strive to chase that, as opposed to some of the other fastballs that I throw, you don't have to hit spots as much, and you can just attack the zone in these areas. Just attack the zone."
So this was a revelation for you? Something you had never seen on paper?

"Yes. I mean, Charlie [Morton] kind of gave me a heads-up before I got in. I remember maybe like the first or second day, I was playing catch with Justin, after that meeting. When you're playing catch with a pitcher, there's an element of 'training' your mind. You just play catch like we all do, but at the same time you're going to work.

"Justin was asking questions like, 'What do you want me to look for?' And I was like, 'Maybe [that the ball is coming out] free and clear, something that looks it's timed up, that looks clean.' And he was, 'Ok, what about backspin? What kind of spin you want on your ball?' And I really didn't know.

"I just came into that meeting, and they talked to me about backspin and the four-seam and throwing it more. So then I remembered playing catch with Justin and when the ball is spinning true and getting the action that he is looking for in his fastball and, ultimately, what they're looking for in mine. He would give me a nod or like some sort of body language that, 'That was the right read.'"


So while all of that explains what has changed for him in Houston, Dog's response was: "The question was "Who helped you become the pitcher you are today?" He mentioned both of those guys" (referring to Searage and Benedict). So it looks like Dog doesn't want to give the credit to the Astros staff for getting Cole to the level he is currently at. He wants to make sure Searage and Benedict are included in the credit for how Cole is pitching TODAY even tho the article clearly shows why things have changed since Cole left the Pirates. That doesn't mean I'm knocking Searage. But it shows the Astros staff has performed productive analysis that the Pirates didn't do and the result is dramatic. It's nice Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict. Sure, they were helpful. But when he left the Pirates, we all wondered why he never became the stud he is TODAY. It's clear they are not the reason he is the pitcher he is TODAY. That would not have happened without the Astros' analysis. 
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2018 at 11:45am by Bobster »  
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Re: The Departed
Reply #418 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 9:33am
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That is the explanatory backstory to support the progress with Morton and Cole we have seen on the mound with our eyes, as well as in the statistics.   If the Pirates are not doing that level of preparation it almost makes you feel immediately inadequate.

Cole and Morton were beautiful arms adrift in underperformance.  What about Kuhl, Taillon, Glasnow and others?   Having come from Houston, Musgrave must be familiar with the process.  If they haven’t yet, the Pirates should query him about the Astros’ approach.

Who knows, perhaps progress has started.  Kuhl has recently been throwing more curves and four seamers.  Taillon started throwing sliders two games ago and has looked brilliant.   I have enjoyed watching Musgrave play just for his competitiveness and energy.  IF, he helps bring a new philosophy to the Pirates’ pitching staff that could be worth its weight in gold.

Let's celebrate our player's successes while they are in Pittsburgh, and not on the Departed Board.

  
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Re: The Departed
Reply #419 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 7:43pm
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Bobster wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 8:17am:
To be clear, I referenced the article that specifically explains what has been different about Cole's coaching in Houston. This is quite relevant to the issue of why he seems to have reached the potential there that he failed to do in Pittsburgh. So while Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict among those who were influential, he specifically detailed: 

"I used to throw a four-seam and the two-seam, and I used to probably lean on the two-seam almost 50 percent of the time or more. When I'd go into the room and have a meeting with them [the Astros coaching staff], they'd show me the data on my four-seam, and then they would show me what my best four-seams looked like. Like, they have video of it, and then they have statistics on it."

So it was the first time you've ever seen those stats?

"Yes, absolutely. They'd say here are the top 15 percent of the four-seams you've thrown your entire career, and this is what it looks like on the stat sheet; this is what the rotation looks like; this is what the ball looks like coming out of your hand. [They'd tell me] if you can strive to chase that, as opposed to some of the other fastballs that I throw, you don't have to hit spots as much, and you can just attack the zone in these areas. Just attack the zone."
So this was a revelation for you? Something you had never seen on paper?

"Yes. I mean, Charlie [Morton] kind of gave me a heads-up before I got in. I remember maybe like the first or second day, I was playing catch with Justin, after that meeting. When you're playing catch with a pitcher, there's an element of 'training' your mind. You just play catch like we all do, but at the same time you're going to work.

"Justin was asking questions like, 'What do you want me to look for?' And I was like, 'Maybe [that the ball is coming out] free and clear, something that looks it's timed up, that looks clean.' And he was, 'Ok, what about backspin? What kind of spin you want on your ball?' And I really didn't know.

"I just came into that meeting, and they talked to me about backspin and the four-seam and throwing it more. So then I remembered playing catch with Justin and when the ball is spinning true and getting the action that he is looking for in his fastball and, ultimately, what they're looking for in mine. He would give me a nod or like some sort of body language that, 'That was the right read.'"


So while all of that explains what has changed for him in Houston, Dog's response was: "The question was "Who helped you become the pitcher you are today?" He mentioned both of those guys" (referring to Searage and Benedict). So it looks like Dog doesn't want to give the credit to the Astros staff for getting Cole to the level he is currently at. He wants to make sure Searage and Benedict are included in the credit for how Cole is pitching TODAY even tho the article clearly shows why things have changed since Cole left the Pirates. That doesn't mean I'm knocking Searage. But it shows the Astros staff has performed productive analysis that the Pirates didn't do and the result is dramatic. It's nice Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict. Sure, they were helpful. But when he left the Pirates, we all wondered why he never became the stud he is TODAY. It's clear they are not the reason he is the pitcher he is TODAY. That would not have happened without the Astros' analysis. 

This  makes me sick, can't believe how far behind we are in player development.  I was so frustrated with Cole but I knew he was a competitor and had a great arm, now we know there's a problem we must get up to speed immediately.
  
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